Your .99/.99a ship & experience

[Vastin]

I don't think it is so much elitism as wanting to teach new people about the game. If you don't teach them to use items in the first system when do you do it? If you don't teach them that some are resistant to your weapons in the first system when do you do it? If you don't teach them that missiles are more powerful weapons in the first system where do you do it?

If you set up the idea early on that every enemy can just be charged at and you win you are misleading the new player into thinking this is a different kind of game that it is.

<sigh> That's why I keep saying that his gun is overpowered. Make him totally immune to kinetics and lasers, but keep his gun weak enough that a player can make a pass at him and not pop like an errant soap bubble. Give them the time to pound on him for a minute or two and realize, no, that's not going to work.

Learning is not about being kicked in the balls, its about solving problems. Well, ok, in real life it's often about being kicked in the balls, but that's why learning in games is usually more fun.

[george moromisato]

I hate to be wishy-washy about it, but I'm torn on this.

I want Arco Vaughn to be a significant challenge to new players. In particular, I think it is important that he cannot be (easily) killed by normal weapons. This is part of what makes him a "boss" and also something that will teach new players about upgrading weapons and damage types, etc. (though maybe not right away).

At the same time, I don't want people to get killed too quickly by him. Otherwise, it's no fun either.

I confess that I didn't spend a lot of time playtesting with the freighter or the Wolfen, so there may be some tweaks that we can make.

One thing I'd like to try is to decrease Arco's fire rate. It's OK if Arco is hard to kill, but maybe he shouldn't kill players so quickly.

Another possibility is to change the AI so that Arco doesn't pursue the player if the player retreats. Maybe Arco should stop firing after the player's shields go down with a message like, "Go home before you hurt yourself!". Only if the player persists will Arco go for a kill.

Anyway, just some ideas.

[Betelgeuse]

I don't think it is so much elitism as wanting to teach new people about the game. If you don't teach them to use items in the first system when do you do it? If you don't teach them that some are resistant to your weapons in the first system when do you do it? If you don't teach them that missiles are more powerful weapons in the first system where do you do it?

If you set up the idea early on that every enemy can just be charged at and you win you are misleading the new player into thinking this is a different kind of game that it is.

<sigh> That's why I keep saying that his gun is overpowered. Make him totally immune to kinetics and lasers, but keep his gun weak enough that a player can make a pass at him and not pop like an errant soap bubble. Give them the time to pound on him for a minute or two and realize, no, that's not going to work.

Learning is not about being kicked in the balls, its about solving problems. Well, ok, in real life it's often about being kicked in the balls, but that's why learning in games is usually more fun.

sounds fair any ideas on what weapon you would like him to have?

[Aury]

Hmm... I'd agree with the decreased ROF

[Vastin]

sounds fair any ideas on what weapon you would like him to have?

Actually, one thought did just occur to me. You could reduce the firepower of arcos' gun and at the same time put a fairly strong repulsive 'kick' on it to shove the player away from him. You could even give it a short disabling effect for flavor. Just tweak Arcos AI so that he does not pursue the player very far at all.

This would make it SEEM like a cool, devastating weapon to the player, while it actually acts to protect them from Arcos by keeping them away from him and effectively encouraging them to seek out a longer range weapon (ie, their missiles).

[Bobby]

i think as long as the player doen't die in the first charge, but perhaps passes through with major damage, the problem is no longer severe.

[F50]

I *never* have trouble with arco unless he is packing KM500s. If that is not the case, then a stock wolfen is as immune to arco as arco is to the stock wolfen due to the hull-plate ionizer and the maneuverability of both ships. Perhaps a Hull-plate Ionizer could be part of the loot of the Centauri outpost near Starton Erandi for the freighter/sapphire? I don't see any reason for the decreased ROF, but trading momentum for damage is at least interesting.


And what if the player decides to upgrade his ship before facing the boss (or rather, why would you attempt to attack a boss with a stock ship)? If you grab a monopole you shouldn't have trouble with arco in any ship (unless he has KM500s).

[Periculi]

George, I like the "boss" aspect of Arco, and think that you could keep him as is, but maybe make more of his 'reputation' available in storyline for th enew players. If the Raisu station and other places where information about the challenge gave the player some build up towards the climax and some additional 'warnings and advice' then perhaps it would be more helpful and still remain as challenging.

[Aury]

George, I like the "boss" aspect of Arco, and think that you could keep him as is, but maybe make more of his 'reputation' available in storyline for th enew players. If the Raisu station and other places where information about the challenge gave the player some build up towards the climax and some additional 'warnings and advice' then perhaps it would be more helpful and still remain as challenging.

yeah, maybe have someone in one of the eridani stations comment on how he's got laser/kinetic immune armor, and someone else hint at how to operate missile systems (as in if the person has the freighter/yacht, tell them to use the DM1500 that's in their cargo hold, and if the person has a wolfen tell them to switch missiles to the KM500's)

[Sheltem]

As a game designer it also tends to be a painfully humbling experience watching intelligent people fumble and struggle to use systems you thought were so simple and intuitive.

The people you ask don't really want to play the game. I think this changes much things. Maybe they dont soak up all information that are around.

If you go mining the outer ring you may find Arco accidentially, what is no good idea because you will have no good chance without an dm1500, stiletto missles or hull plate ionizer

Another possibility is to change the AI so that Arco doesn't pursue the player if the player retreats. Maybe Arco should stop firing after the player's shields go down with a message like, "Go home before you hurt yourself!". Only if the player persists will Arco go for a kill.

I like this idea very much. People would be happy if they would get the last chance, although I think dying in transcendence is a necessary experience ...

I dont think he should be weakened but people should be prepeared to be beaten !

[Sponge]

Another possibility is to change the AI so that Arco doesn't pursue the player if the player retreats. Maybe Arco should stop firing after the player's shields go down with a message like, "Go home before you hurt yourself!". Only if the player persists will Arco go for a kill.

This is excellent. Arco's strength is kept, and so he still serves as a very powerful early game "boss," while teaching new players to make tactical decisions. At the same time, he won't utterly destroy someone who doesn't know what to expect.

[Aury]

The warning would work quite nicely too.

BTW- there are plenty other chances to die in transcendence... phobos blowing up...

[Vastin]

This is excellent. Arco's strength is kept, and so he still serves as a very powerful early game "boss," while teaching new players to make tactical decisions. At the same time, he won't utterly destroy someone who doesn't know what to expect.

Actually, arcos is very weak against the wolfen. One of his problems is how different the experience is for the different ships.

Honestly, having killed him about a dozen times now to see how he really affects early play, I can say it is NOT the missiles that are important to beating him - it's the targeting ROM.

Without that rom, the missiles are nearly useless because you have to get in range of his guns for them to hit (and there's a good chance you'll die). If you DO have the rom, you don't need the missiles at all because your turret laser will handily kill him at long range.

So, if you don't roll the Targeting Rom to start with on the freighter, the real answer is not to get the missiles (though a skilled dogfighter CAN beat him with just the missiles), it is to save up and buy the Hull Plate Ionizer so that you can go in close and live.

Wolfen doesn't care about any of this crap. It can just duel him right from the word go.

[Sheltem]

I made it without an targetting rom with the wolfen. the stilettos or dm1500 track for themself, so if you fire in the right direction, you will possibly hit him.

I have a problem with the missions to destroy centauri strongholds. If there is no extra Habitat out of Eridani settlement, they will might not get a third mission and be frustrated.

btw, why does nobody talk about Cynus Anderson ?

[Aury]

btw, why does nobody talk about Cynus Anderson ?

who?