Wow, scripting changes to systems really...

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Periculi
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really, really messes up the map.

Sad to see that so many of the nice features in the system map get completely lost or messed up if system structure changes are made with script in an OnCreate. :evil:

I wanted to alter the stars according to a table generated at the beginning of the game so that the star types would be knowable from remote systems to place in the mapper. Results:

:x Star space glow doesn't get added if a star station is added with sysCreateStation.

(And, only star scale stations can use spaceColor it seems. It also seems that star scale objects are excluded from sysFindObject searches. When I decided to try a process of elimination to simply place all the possible spaceGlow colors I needed, then remove the unused colors, I had to add scale=star to the station tag, then I couldn't find it with sysFindObject anymore. :x Not to mention the fact that apparently only the first spaceColor value added was used.)

I don't really miss the glow, but this is driving me nuts:

:x Star icon in map is placed on top layer, often obscuring planets that are close to it.

I wanted to alter the planets or add one during an <OnCreate> event.

:x Planet orbit isn't added. (added a orbit object to keep the orbit, and the new planet shows up UNDER the orbit line!)

I will let you imagine the difficulties I am facing in adding stations on demand.

What a pity, seems that the system tag uses a lot of specialized features that the game scripting can't even touch. Which is sad, because it would be great to create the system at the onCreate to match information that was generated at the beginning of the game.

Why? Because then we could 'know about these things in game' or, in other words, have the information available outside of the current system and prior to the system being created, and then use the information in missions or other places.

(Is it so hard to imagine that pilots one might meet in Eridani would be able to answer the question: "Is there an asteroid belt in Groombridge?" or "What type of star is the [name] system?" or perhaps you could drop into the local CW station and discover some factual information about the upcoming systems, such as would typically constitute rumors or trivial conversation: "On my last run to St. K's, miners in the [name] system had discovered many new sources of titanium on [planet name], I got a great discount on new armor from [station name]!" -and then have the game actually produce these features.)

Not that I can't do it, it is just going to be a great deal more difficult to make the map look like it should and to get the objects to do what they do in the specialized system tag format.

(The fact is, the map seems to be a rather finicky and sensitive appended feature. I have had all kinds of difficulties with map labels getting misplaced when changing the text value of a label, and general bugginess all around when changing system structures. Might be a good idea to take a good hard look at the map code and try to give it a little more intelligence)

Frustrations aside, it is entirely possible to re-structure a system to allow information about Star type, Number of planets, types of planets, environment, resources, and anything else to be available from anywhere else in the game. I will let you imagine the amount of uses and interesting effects that a cohesive game universe can achieve.

Does this alter the rogue-like portions of the game environment? Absolutely not! It just makes the randomness happen at a different time. And having the info be available would allow for a great deal more communication and unity between systems for missions and other features.

I am so close to getting the game to act like a unit that doesn't have any limitations between current and remote systems, yet fear the continual discover of more pitfalls such as missing graphic elements and no way to recreate them.
Last edited by Periculi on Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Betelgeuse
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wow sounds cool, it would also allow you to create systems from in code.
The only problem I see is this would take hundreds if not thousands of system nodes to make all the variations and the multiple copies so you can use a certain type more than once.
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Periculi
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The only problem I see is this would take hundreds if not thousands of system nodes to make all the variations and the multiple copies so you can use a certain type more than once.
What do you mean?

All I want is to be able to change the system to suit a demand. If the system table choses a Red Giant star at the beginning of the game for SK, then when you get to SK you get a Red Giant star placed at the star marker (complete with Red space glow and not on top of the closest planetary orbits...)

It would, it seems to me, take LESS system nodes.
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Betelgeuse
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oh I thought station create didn't create the glow and you don't get oribts with that? So you have to create nodes for each of the variations you wanted.
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Periculi
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No, sorry- you don't seem to understand.

How do I define which one to use before hand? The system definitions are defined in the topology node tags, and are inaccessible to get any information from when they are not the current system, right.

How would you define, from Eridani, what would be present in the next system before it has been created? To my understanding, no amount of system nodes (tags?) would solve the issue of not being able to get the information.

I think that in order to define the stars for every system before you enter the game (from the Start Here system in System26, for instance) we need to ignore the system definition for the star type and replace it with code that generates the desired star once you get to entering the systems.

Do you see what I am trying to do here?
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Betelgeuse
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oh ok sounds good
so you are not going to worry about the glowing and planet orbits for now then?
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Periculi
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Seeing as I don't really have a choice, nope not going to worry about them.

The benefits far outweigh the little frustrations.

And, I think that I may be able to improve on the graphic effects such that people won't complain about the loss of a little space color. Perhaps some kind of sysCreateEffect coding could make a better star radiance effect.

Not much hope on the orbits, but I have been using a orbit object and even though it creates the orbit line on top of the replacement planet, if used with care it might not be a major issue. (Perhaps only some special planets would need to be created once in a blue moon...)

As for the number of planets, there I can use the elimination method to good effect, although the orbitals of planets removed may cause some trouble.

One idea I am tinkering with is to start by using the system tags as structure elements only, and use markers or simple objects to start the creation process- then use all script to place the rest of the system in.

As you can imagine, this has issues with such special effects as asteroid belts and space environment like Nebula.

But ignoring that- the station are really what I wanted to focus on. They are fairly easy, except that when I remove a placed station I also have to remove the guard ships that are placed with it. I am thinking of just using markers to 'tag' the places where a given type of station will be added.
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