exotic cargo bays

[Betelgeuse]

inspired by Lokarin's Massless Armoury bays

Exotic cargo bays are cargo bays that change the properties of the cargo in them. Such as taking up less mass for a dedicated fuel or ammo holds.
To heated or manufacturing holds for changing ores and ices.
Even a purifying bay to improve the price while lowering the mass and giving you slag.
Disassembly bay takes apart things so while you might not get a good price for damaged stuff some of it wouldn't be damaged so you gain overall.

Any other ideas or comments?

[Lokarin]

Neat.

Perhaps certain types of ore could be refined into fuel?


A new illegal cargo hold... refine chemicals in verious barrels into drugs


Hexacomb Hardened cargo hold... can't be irradiated by items in the cargo hold. Description could be something like "Each compartment is individually sealed and stops all permeability up to 0.2 Zeptometers"

[Sponge]

I'm actually not really a fan of this idea. Ammo/Fuel Holds aren't a bad idea, but holds with a significant game effect just don't seem like a great idea. If you don't have that hold, you miss out on a good chunk of content.

Furthermore, it's a cargo hold, not an ore refinery. It seems like the components in each are vastly different and not largely compatible. Do you really want to refine ore in the same place you store explosives and fuel?

I do like the idea of new holds that have a small amount of gameplay value. The Smuggler's hold is neat as it allows you to traffic illegals and still dock at friendly stations. Can you carry illegal items without it? Sure. It's just a hassle. The hold is more of a convenience than a content provider. Same with the new mining hold.

I'm actually working on a mod that contains a hold based on the same principal- provide convenience without making it a required item. The hold will conceal up to three illegal items from friendly stations (any more than that and you'll lose all your illegals as they'll find the non-hidden items and preform a full search) and protect the player from abandoned crate acid.

[Lokarin]

Maybe...

Perhaps spending money to build refineries on planets would be more likely (you can drop off ore, pick up finished material)

Enchanted Cargobay of Holding just sounds so.. dumb.

IDK, maybe a Cargobay which costs energy to keep its contents from affecting your shipmass as a counterpart to the inertialess drive.



Or maybe a cargobay with only like +50% tonnage which doubles as a Launcher Weapon? A good compromise for the gunship where the bay could occupy a weapon device slot or for the freighter were it wouldn't... (either/or)



I just don't like having to leave 1000 or so Strelka's behind because the ship is too heavy with them.

[Betelgeuse]

I'm actually not really a fan of this idea. Ammo/Fuel Holds aren't a bad idea, but holds with a significant game effect just don't seem like a great idea. If you don't have that hold, you miss out on a good chunk of content.

I would say that is a good thing that you can not do all the game at once. Would you say that the ICX is a bad idea because sometimes you can not find it? It has a much greater effect on the game than any hold due to it directly effects the gameplay. a hold will not allow you to fight any new enemies)
Myself I would love things that allowed me to have a different experience every time I played the game and I couldn't just use the same configuration every time.

[Sponge]

However, an ICX doesn't eek out more content. If I don't find an ICX, my game experience isn't really different than it would have been had I found one. The only content it allows the player to access is a laser that shoots down missiles. A cargo bay that refines ore, on the other hand, is required if the player wants to refine ore.

I would rather something like that be a choice as opposed to something based on luck. It would be better to implement a refinery station or something similar so that the player could choose whether or not they wanted to refine ore as opposed to relying on finding a cargo hold to do it.

I'd also like to reemphasize my point that it doesn't make sense narratively, too. If you're melting down ore, you're creating hot and hazardous conditions. Those conditions probably don't create a good environment for fuels/explosives, let alone expensive equipment that could be damaged.

[Betelgeuse]

well yes of course specialized holds will have disadvantages

However, an ICX doesn't eek out more content.

um what? What could a cargo hold do that even comes close to how much the icx effects the game? Enough cargo holds would make a specific one not as important kind of like weapons are now. Weapons are also random but you are not complaining about them.

Even if certain elements are not there the game should be full enough to enjoy. For example there are games where mining is not available that just changes the game up a bit. I don't want a game where it is the same every game.

Maybe this is a fundamental disagreement on if there should be elements of the game should not appear in every game.

[Periculi]

I think it's critical for the replayability of transcendence that things don't always appear and that different paths offer differing methods of play. I would prefer it if sometimes I am excluded from some content in favor of other options.

The only thing that would be bad, imho, is if development paths prevented me from getting to higher levels. I don't see that happening with specialty cargo holds at all- it's like a choice between looting random spawns for hours to get credits or having a vastly improved mining income. Both methods serve to get me money- it's fun to be able to choose to do something different from game to game. Indeed, more than fun- it's the only thing that keeps me interested in playing.

[Sponge]

I certainly agree that each game should be as different as possible, and that you shouldn't be able to experience everything the game has to offer in a single instance.

That said, I don't feel that cargo holds should make a large impact on the game. If you can smelt ore (and presumably sell the resultant product, or further work it into something more valuable) with a cargo hold, having that hold creates an advantage. It also allows the player to access more content that he would have been able to do before. An ICX, on the other hand, doesn't unlock any more content than a typical laser. It may be helpful, but so is an omni weapon.

Cargo holds have, up until this point, just been a convenience. Getting more ore when mining doesn't offer more content, it just makes reaching the same content that is available to someone without the mining hold a bit faster. The smuggler's hold is the same way.

Once you have cargo holds providing something more than convenience, I think they start to become more like a normal device, such as an ICX. I'd prefer them to remain devices that extend your hold while occasionally making something a tad bit less time consuming or maybe negating a hassle here and there.

[Betelgeuse]

hmm maybe I am not understanding. Are you saying that you do not want devices to unlock content? (that is already in)
Or maybe you don't like the idea of cargo holds doing that (so we should just change the name of them)?

No one ever said these where exclusive to the cargo holds that have these properties. I can see stations doing this stuff for a fee.

I also don't understand you point that they will have a huge impact on the game compared to the ICX. Mostly it will be value adding type stuff while the ICX allows you to do new things (no cargo hold proposed allows you to fight new enemies unlike the ICX)

[Periculi]

having that hold creates an advantage.

Sure- it gives me the advantage of not having to sit on a heavily defended station with auto pilot on, waiting for wrecks to pile up so that I can afford a new reactor and some better guns. Rather than earn money by looting exploits, I can earn money by playing at running a smelting operation.

[Sponge]

Or maybe you don't like the idea of cargo holds doing that (so we should just change the name of them)?

This here. I don't like the idea of something that gives you more cargo space also unlocking significant amounts of content (like a smelting mechanic) or providing an otherwise large game bonus, in addition to the obvious increased cargo space (which is usually just a convenience).

No one ever said these where exclusive to the cargo holds that have these properties. I can see stations doing this stuff for a fee.

That'd work fine. The title of this thread led me believe that these ideas were limited to cargo holds. In fact, if you wanted to create a device called a "Smelting Hold" that didn't give you cargo room, that'd be an awesome new device. I could install that and still install a cargo bay expansion.

I also don't understand you point that they will have a huge impact on the game compared to the ICX. Mostly it will be value adding type stuff while the ICX allows you to do new things (no cargo hold proposed allows you to fight new enemies unlike the ICX)

I honestly don't find the ICX allowing me to fight new things. It's nice to have, and it might make combat easier, but it doesn't open up new content and it's really not much more than a convenience.

Sure- it gives me the advantage of not having to sit on a heavily defended station with auto pilot on, waiting for wrecks to pile up so that I can afford a new reactor and some better guns. Rather than earn money by looting exploits, I can earn money by playing at running a smelting operation.

I've never sat on top of a station looting wrecks it makes, even with a Wolfen without a bay expansion. If anything, extra cargo space just prevents you from having to make multiple trips when selling things, which is a convenience. There is that thing with the price decreasing as you sell more items, but as I see it, selling all at once is a workaround to that system and the system itself needs to be improved to fix that problem.

[Betelgeuse]

well I was thinking it would lower the amount you could hold in your hold and not allow a normal cargo hold at the same time.

[Periculi]

Yeah- the thought never crossed my mind that the specialty hold would also be able to increase cargo. I just assumed if you put equipment in there it would take up a bunch of room and maybe even limit the type of cargo you could carry.

[Sponge]

well I was thinking it would lower the amount you could hold in your hold and not allow a normal cargo hold at the same time.

I don't know how I'd feel about that. As I usually use the Wolfen, it's pretty much a sure thing that I wouldn't use something that lowered my cargo capacity very often. It may be pretty balanced, though.

At the same time, if it were just a device and not considered a hold, it's cost would basically be the extra device slot required for a typical hold expansion.

What if items had a "space" attribute in addition to a mass attribute? It would be a neat way of limiting what items could be carried around effectively, as dense ore would likely take up less space per ton than a case of ammo or a reactor.