Pirate fines

[evilbob]

everytime? I prefer your previous idea.

[OddBob]

Every time you destroy a base, unless you were wearing stealth armor there is a 50% chance that it was reported back to the Commonwealth. If it isn't reported, the game continues as normal. If it is reported, the next time you pull into a commonwealth station, the following will happen.

So you could potentially be screwed before leaving Eridani as there can be four bases there. You would always be screwed by Rigel, because random Military ID's are rare, and there are dozens of enemy stations.

I don't see why they should frown upon it at all.

You're assuming the commonwealth acts like modern-day law enforcement in most places(where killing anyone, even a murderer/drug dealer/rapist, will get you arrested). But there aren't, in most places, people running around on the streets shooting people with machine guns and bombs and taking their stuff. In most places, there is enough law enforcement to prevent that sort of thing, enough that they can do their job, and if you tried to do it to, you would get in the way, and also get dead, because you aren't equipped like they are, so it is frowned upon.

But in Transcendence, there isn't very much law enforcement. Space is too huge, and the Commonwealth too weak for that. Even St. K's isn't all the way under control. You have access to weapons of comparable strentgh to that of the law's, and if you want to make the universe a better place by removing some pirates (and thus saving a few lives) who is going to care?

Also, think of it this way: Police officers today, upon encountering a drug dealer/murderer/rapist, will not use lethal force on sight, they will arrest the person if at all possible. That's why you can't shoot them. If you brought the aforementioned criminal into the police station and turned him over, you wouldn't be arrested. You'd still probably get a "leave the enforcing to us" talk, but they wouldn't put you in jail. But, in Transcendence, the penalty for pirating IS death. Commonwealth ships shoot pirates on sight. So do you.

Not to mention that if you're not allowed to kill any station in game, what are you going to do? Poke the Iocrym with your recoilless cannon? Try and get a military ID on your starting ship, without killing anything first?

[evilbob]

I agree oddbob!

[SparcMan]

Destroying hostile stations is a main part of the game. Limiting the player with heavy penalties for doing so will make the game less fun. Blowing up non-hostiles is a fun option as well under some conditions and can be worth a resonable penalty as well. When I suggested that there should be a fault with the smugglers hold, I was thinking about the various nuances of Nethack. For instance, if you kill a cocktrice, you can wield it as a weapon that petrifies enemies instantly (as long as you are wearing gauntlets), but there is a chance that when you go down stairs (something you have to do to beat the game), there is a chance that you will trip and fall on the cockatrice and petrify yourself.

[Yugi]

Lol, that was comparitavley short compared to Oddbob's post.

[Betelgeuse]

well while destroying hostile stations my be the main part of the game it would be better if the player was encouraged to do other things. Frankly I am getting board of the find hostile station then kill it style of playing.
Putting fines on killing friendly ships would just make it even less worth it to attack them (most of the time there is no point, the game already wants you just to kill the next hostile station to get money).
What would be fun would be a reword system for killing certain ships. Or even a reword for killing a friendly station or ship (rival business or disguised hostile)

[evilbob]

more missions would sort things out. maybe more variety instead of protect/destroy freighter/ship/station. like capture the flag (capture the crate of experimental weapons) or "control the area" (space beacons that have to be controlled to win, a la star wars:battlefront)

[Clear Air Turbulence]

Every time you destroy a base, unless you were wearing stealth armor there is a 50% chance that it was reported back to the Commonwealth. If it isn't reported, the game continues as normal. If it is reported, the next time you pull into a commonwealth station, the following will happen.

So you could potentially be screwed before leaving Eridani as there can be four bases there. You would always be screwed by Rigel, because random Military ID's are rare, and there are dozens of enemy stations.

I don't see why they should frown upon it at all.

You're assuming the commonwealth acts like modern-day law enforcement in most places(where killing anyone, even a murderer/drug dealer/rapist, will get you arrested). But there aren't, in most places, people running around on the streets shooting people with machine guns and bombs and taking their stuff. In most places, there is enough law enforcement to prevent that sort of thing, enough that they can do their job, and if you tried to do it to, you would get in the way, and also get dead, because you aren't equipped like they are, so it is frowned upon.

But in Transcendence, there isn't very much law enforcement. Space is too huge, and the Commonwealth too weak for that. Even St. K's isn't all the way under control. You have access to weapons of comparable strentgh to that of the law's, and if you want to make the universe a better place by removing some pirates (and thus saving a few lives) who is going to care?

Also, think of it this way: Police officers today, upon encountering a drug dealer/murderer/rapist, will not use lethal force on sight, they will arrest the person if at all possible. That's why you can't shoot them. If you brought the aforementioned criminal into the police station and turned him over, you wouldn't be arrested. You'd still probably get a "leave the enforcing to us" talk, but they wouldn't put you in jail. But, in Transcendence, the penalty for pirating IS death. Commonwealth ships shoot pirates on sight. So do you.

Not to mention that if you're not allowed to kill any station in game, what are you going to do? Poke the Iocrym with your recoilless cannon? Try and get a military ID on your starting ship, without killing anything first?

Where did I say you couldn't attack any station in the game? I was talking about specific types of stations, such as Outlaws, Anarchists, Heliotropes, etc. If you read George's descriptions of the various factions, you'll see that these are not really evil menaces to society and I think it's a bit odd that players without any kind of military clearance are allowed to go around destroying entire stations.

I'm not assuming that the Commonwealth is like modern law enforcement, the scenario I describe paints them far differently. Modern law enforcement would not let you off with a warning if you claimed to have accidentally burned down a house full of gangsters who shot at you as you drove by. They would not allow you to to go attack the cities of hostile nations. I see the Commonwealth as the kind of government that understands things are dangerous in space and give you no trouble at all about blowing up enemy ships, who would be grateful if a civilian took it upon themselves to free slaves from the Sung, who will recruit you into their military and give you free reign to do whatever you want if you just have a ship and some fighting skill. I also don't see them as evil, so I strongly doubt that they would let someone go unpunished if they took it upon themselves to exterminate dozens, hundreds, or possibly thousands of outlaws or anarchists, for no real reason other than profit.

As to screwing yourself up too early, if you modified the game this way you would of course have to provide some other sources of income. There would be some stations that the commonwealth would not care about if civilians took them out - pirates, slavers, maybe even dangerous cults like the Pentitents. And when I made that post I realized the punishment shouldn't go up for every reported base destruction because a person unaccustomed to this restriction might well destroy 4 bases and have all 4 of them report him (unlikely, but possible) before they visit their first commonwealth station - so I'd propose that the punishment go up for each visit after destroying more stations, like this...

Destroy 4 "non-evil" enemy bases, 2 of them report it, you then visit the station and you get the message that you aren't in trouble but letting you know that it's not something to be done without a permit (military ID). The player then destroys 5 more "non-evil" bases before he next visits a station, and then he gets the stern warning not to do that anymore, etc. This way a person would have to be warned 3 times before they could get isolated from the Commonwealth. Maybe skip a level of warning if the person kills a LOT of bases in between visits to Commonwealth stations, but never skip the step where they make you post bail.

[Clear Air Turbulence]

Oh, and they should tell you what kind of bases it's OK to destroy the first time you get caught - "We believe you when you say that Anarchist Gathering fired on you as you passed their area, and that you returned a single volley of missiles that accidentally set off a chain reaction killing hundreds of bootleggers and their families, so you aren't in trouble - but in the future you should try to avoid anarchist stations, and concentrate on killing pirates and slavers".

[evilbob]

Every time you destroy a base, unless you were wearing stealth armor

that's where,

[Clear Air Turbulence]

Every time you destroy a base, unless you were wearing stealth armor

that's where,

It was a continuation of the post I made minutes earlier where I discussed how some of the "enemy" bases should not be fair game for everybody with a gun. I didn't change my position on that between posts, I meant "Every base of the sort I was just discussing".

[evilbob]

well make sure you tell people next time. It confuses me.

all this talk of anarchists gives me an idea.
Maybe the commonwealth isn't the "clean cut galactic government" we'd like to think it is.
maybe they promote destruction of people becase of political veiws etc.?

[OddBob]

I was talking about specific types of stations, such as Outlaws, Anarchists, Heliotropes, etc. If you read George's descriptions of the various factions, you'll see that these are not really evil menaces to society and I think it's a bit odd that players without any kind of military clearance are allowed to go around destroying entire stations.

Outlaws [augmented humans]: A loose criminal organization involved in smuggling, drugs, extortion, etc. They have close ties to the Black Market stations.

Heliotropes [augmented/enhanced humans]: A quasi-religious organization founded on principles opposing entropy and energy-death. Heliotropes are generally hostile to other humans.

Anarchists [various]: Fanatical group that opposes the Corporate Hierarchy and seeks to redistribute their profits.

Emphasis mine.

Except for Anarchists, which doesn't say specifically bootlegging (remember, if I kill you and take you possesions, I'm 'redistributing your profits') those sound pretty bad to me.

As to screwing yourself up too early, if you modified the game this way you would of course have to provide some other sources of income. There would be some stations that the commonwealth would not care about if civilians took them out - pirates, slavers, maybe even dangerous cults like the Pentitents.

Sure, but before St. K's you will encounter mostly anarchists, outlaws and enemy miners, making pirates the only enemy you're allowed to shoot.

Now instead of forcing players to kill only enemy stations, we're taking the other road. Now you cant even do that to some until you get a military ID.

I also don't see them as evil, so I strongly doubt that they would let someone go unpunished if they took it upon themselves to exterminate dozens, hundreds, or possibly thousands of outlaws or anarchists, for no real reason other than profit.

When you do it with sanction of the authorities is it no longer for profit?