Frags are indisputably the best base busting missile until the Red Strelka, the Lucifer, and the ZG6 cluster MAG. The only common one of these is the Lucifer. I suggest that either Mayakev or whoever makes MAGs make a fragment missile or Frags no longer fragment for the first inch or so on the screen. The Frag can destroy a BM station, if I am sitting on it, before my Yori S500 falls out.
Another thing about frags: they seem to think wreaks and companions are targets.
Frags Unbalanced?
I noticed that as well with the NAMI frag's. It is an advantage in the Charon system, especially against the Charon fortress-do quick fly-overs on that base and give 'em frag's and occasionally dodging behind asteroids to fend off the particle beams and allow your shield to completely regen, then repeat until you bust the base.
Frag's do seem to explode at anything near its path, especially wrecks and will also explode amidst wreck ejecta.
There is a base seige MAG, however. Have you tried that? It works well in busting bases and can be found quite easily, but are usually in small numbers.
Frag's do seem to explode at anything near its path, especially wrecks and will also explode amidst wreck ejecta.
There is a base seige MAG, however. Have you tried that? It works well in busting bases and can be found quite easily, but are usually in small numbers.
This is a feature, not a bug.Another thing about frags: they seem to think wreaks and companions are targets.
I don't really sees a problem with frags. My criteria for "unbalanced" is a weapon that makes the game a cakewalk or is otherwise so far above it's level you would never use anything else.
Black Market Stations aren't supposed to be hard to destroy with an S500. There's already a penalty in place for that.
The frag is level III, the ZG6 is at least VI (might be VII). The Red Strelka is VII. I believe so is the Lucifer.OddBob wrote: I don't really sees a problem with frags. My criteria for "unbalanced" is a weapon that makes the game a cakewalk or is otherwise so far above it's level you would never use anything else.
It is far above its level. THere is nothing the same or better until at least VI. The rest of this could just be weak, but something is out of place.
Are you saying the frag is just as good as cluster mags?The frag is level III, the ZG6 is at least VI (might be VII). The Red Strelka is VII. I believe so is the Lucifer.
It is far above its level. THere is nothing the same or better until at least VI. The rest of this could just be weak, but something is out of place.
I just played a ship with some frags and one with cluster mags. Try it. Mod up a ship and use exclusively frags one game and exclusively cluster mags another. They compare about as you'd expect for one being half the other's level.
It takes five or six frags to kill a Korolev Freighter, one to three frags for a Zulu. Two for a Viking, one for caches, eight or more for abbasids, outposts and one for weak ships (corsair, hornet, the pointy one, centarui radiers) and two to four for most else. I played until Rigel or so.
Now try it with cluster mags. It's harder to count hits, because even if you miss you hit just about everything on screen. Two or three fired into a cluster of early game enemy ships takes them all out. The fragments go FOREVER. Each fragment does as much damage as a KM100 (4d6 with WMD 3 insted of the Longbows' 5), while frag missile fragments do 1d6+2 with WMD 1.
About "there is nothing the same or better until" higher levels:
That's true. There are no low level missile launchers except for the NAMI. There is only one missile launcher early game. It's the best out of all the early game missile launchers.
Try sitting *on top of* a BMS with S100, blast plate, and frags. Now try that with the 800 MAG. Now use white Strelkas. The frag does best. The ZG6 is the first one above the 800 MAG. The ZG6 is better, but the 800 is not nearly as good. The Lucifer is the next superior common missile. The ZG6 isn't that common either.
Exactly. A frag will explode while your ship is sitting directly on top of the target and all the fragments will explode, causing a good amount of damage per shot.
I used to use the longbow to bust bases early in game until I discovered the frag, positioned correctly, works a lot better and takes less time. I've also tried MAG's and if you're on top of a base, it doesn't explode to its full potential. It has to be a distance away from the target to be most effective.
Until a howitzer can be found, I use the longbow to clear wrecks early in game, especially in Charon, since those Drake wrecks provide a plethora of them.
I used to use the longbow to bust bases early in game until I discovered the frag, positioned correctly, works a lot better and takes less time. I've also tried MAG's and if you're on top of a base, it doesn't explode to its full potential. It has to be a distance away from the target to be most effective.
Until a howitzer can be found, I use the longbow to clear wrecks early in game, especially in Charon, since those Drake wrecks provide a plethora of them.
So when you use an exploit frags are overpowered? (Yeah, not quite "exploit" level, not even cheap lunch, but it's at least "gamey".
Doctor, it hurts when I do this!
Really though, fossa's suggestion would solve that trick, as would giving every frag an instant failsafe, so you can still hit a ship ten pixels away (the only way to hit a Centari sometimes) but not on top of a station, hiding from guards.
Doctor, it hurts when I do this!
Really though, fossa's suggestion would solve that trick, as would giving every frag an instant failsafe, so you can still hit a ship ten pixels away (the only way to hit a Centari sometimes) but not on top of a station, hiding from guards.
The only downside I can see with using that canHitSource="true" code for an early-game weapon, is that a frag will explode when close to anything. You fire that missile while sitting next to a wreck or an asteroid and wanting to hit a target a ways off and it'll go off directly in front of you. With that code added in, your ship would get the blunt of it. That would take the appeal away from players using the frag, especially newbies. I know I wouldn't want to use something that could cause me harm while trying to learn the game.
It really doesn't matter if you take away the advantage of using a frag directly over a base, as you can use a howitzer (Urak or mark I-III) over a base to do the same thing early in the game. And those can usually be found a couple systems past Eridana.
A better solution might be to have a code that would prohibit firing the missile (or any weapon) while positioned directly over a base.
It really doesn't matter if you take away the advantage of using a frag directly over a base, as you can use a howitzer (Urak or mark I-III) over a base to do the same thing early in the game. And those can usually be found a couple systems past Eridana.
A better solution might be to have a code that would prohibit firing the missile (or any weapon) while positioned directly over a base.
The thing is the frag needs to be balanced to other *missiles*. You can use the howitzers and you should. but you shouldn't be using frags on a base or a wreak-field.
It would be nice if the company that makes MAGs (I can't spell it. It's the same one that makes the Akan 600) sold ZG6s in the later-game factory.
It would be nice if the company that makes MAGs (I can't spell it. It's the same one that makes the Akan 600) sold ZG6s in the later-game factory.
I think the frag is well balanced with the rest of the missiles in that level, providing it is used as it was intended, which wasn't meant to be used directly over a base, rather, more as a stand-off missile from a distance. Then it shows its inferiority as not all the fragments will explode/hit the target. as the frags will arc out into a limited circle-at which roughly less than half of the frags could hit a single target.F50 wrote:The thing is the frag needs to be balanced to other *missiles*. You can use the howitzers and you should. but you shouldn't be using frags on a base or a wreak-field.
Take a look at the frag code:
Fragmentation missile; damage= "blast:1d6+2; WMD1" (3-8 max damage potential per missile)
Missile fragment; fragmentCount= "5d6" (up to 30 max frags potential)
damage= "kinetic:1d6+2; WMD1" (3-8 max damage potential per fragment)
Now take a look at the ZG24 Cluster MAG code:
Cluster MAG; damage= "blast:4d6; WMD3" (4-24 max damage potential per missile)
Missile fragment; fragmentCount= "24" failsafe= "6"
damage= "blast:4d6; WMD3" (4-24 max damage potential per fragment)
There's a huge difference between the two-the ZG24 Cluster MAG is by far, more superior when used as it was meant to be used.
But to compare the frag with its counterpart missiles (NAMI), the KM500 Missile and the KM100 Missile both are blast @ 4d6 (4-24, same damage rate as the ZG24 MAG) but no fragmentation. With the Frag missile, if you tally up the fragment damage alone (considering 30 max fragments @ 1d6+2), you'd get a total damage rate of 90-240. That's not even including the frag missile damage itself, which would bring it up to 93-248 (if you can combine kinetic with blast). And that is why it can quickly and easily bust bases when positioned directly on top of them.
Using the frag as it was meant to be used would greatly reduce those numbers.
I agree FAD. Bbut something needs to be done so that it will be used as it was intended. Can hit source is a good way of doing this because the usability of the frag as it was intended is not reduced at all, but the extra damage afforded by the frag would be enough to discourage anyone with low-level tech from abusing it. Once you get in higher levels the damage from the frag is insignificant but then there are better weapons for base busting and the bases are stronger.