Modding Ideas

[FAD]

I'm sure some of you modders have thought about modding a gambling casino (maybe someone already has?). It's been something I've been wanting to do for a while now... but I don't really know how to do all the coding, so I'd like to ask all of ya's if everyone or anyone would be willing to pool our resources together to see if we could make a casino with several different types of gambling games in it.

What originally comes to mind for one gambling aspect is a player/AI dealer scenario where only credits (and possibly rins) are used, no items. I'm thinking we could implement the "roll dice" code in here somewhere along with the manipulation of player's credits as a play-win/lose criteria.

The scenario: Player docks at the casino and in the dockscreen will be a list of different gambling games to choose from. In my game, the player must pay 1000 credits to play (for a purse of maybe 5000-10000 credits upon winning per game.) The AI dealer would 'match the til' and then by "roll dice" would either hold, fold or raise bid--causing the player to either match and call, fold, place a double-or-nothing bid or win by default (dealer folds) to complete the game.
The outcome would be by chance with the percentage margin "win/lose" based on the "roll dice" code. (which I'm thinking should be around a 35/65 win/lose percent basis for the player)

So, is this feasible? Worthy of persuing or toss it in the scrap heap?
If we could get this to fly, I can make a nice "flashy Vegas-style" animated casino station for eye candy.

[dvlenk6]

Betelgeuse had talked about that back at the now defunct Transcendi Forum. Nude dancers were over-ruled
(see http://www.neurohack.com/transcendence/ ... .php?t=416 )

I'm not sure how to go about that myself, that's why i was asking if he was still floating around here. I don't think it would be too hard. There aren't that many variables involved. Black Market Stations seem the likely choice.

- - - - -

What program(s) do you use to make your animations?
Are you planning on using human models?
I do 3D work too. Maybe I have some models that you could use that would save you some time. Glasses, bottles, tables, chairs, barstools that sort of thing. I could also make other models as well. I know how much work it is to make a detailed animation at 600x400.

[Burzmali]

I wouldn't be too hard to replicate modern casino games like blackjack, craps and roulette using the code, but the interface with the player could get pretty tricky.

[FAD]

What program(s) do you use to make your animations?
Are you planning on using human models?
I do 3D work too. Maybe I have some models that you could use that would save you some time. Glasses, bottles, tables, chairs, barstools that sort of thing. I could also make other models as well. I know how much work it is to make a detailed animation at 600x400.

My 3D toolbox consists of primaries; Vue, Poser, PSP, Daz|Studio... and many off-shoot 3D and 2D progs that come in handy for given situations. I made, animated and rendered the UFO in Vue and tweaked it in PSP. Would probably use Vue to make the casino as well as its dockscreen(s)--which could have humans placed around gambling tables, slots and such. So if we can get this thing going, any models you have or could make would really help out. But first, I think we should try to get the code to work before spending a lot of time with 3D. We can always use existing game images while writing/testing the xml code and once completed, then do the 3D.

With the coding, I've seen the roll dice code and by looking at it, it seems like it should be able to work for the casino. Just have to figure out its functions and then implement it in.

I wouldn't be too hard to replicate modern casino games like blackjack, craps and roulette using the code, but the interface with the player could get pretty tricky..

Hmmm... If my scenario idea sounds a bit complicated, maybe we could refine it down to the basics for starters. Instead of having the AI dealer counter bet and such, just have him bet and call...until we can determine if the more advanced coding will work?

[Burzmali]

It is the interim states that are complex. How would the player know where they should fold or raise? If the odds are always the same at every point in the game, that's pretty boring.

[dvlenk6]

Roulette would be the easiest. Odds never change in that.

What about slot machines? Those could be done with a string of randoms with a payback chart, so the player could have the chance of losing, breaking even, 'hitting it big', or anything in between. Slots are the most popular casino games anyway. Results could be just numbers, pips, or make some little pictures tied to the random result: '2 synthetic chickens and a hogei salmon pays 3:1 '

I'd also like to see a choice about how much you wanted to bet, even if it is just a multiple choice. i.e. 100,500,1000,... or whatever. Betting the same amount every time would get boring too. The 'bet amount' question could have the exit game/return to 'lobby' command. The 'lobby' could have game choice with the exit casino command. Most people gambling like to up the stakes when they get ahead. This is how casinos win back most of their payouts, because the odds are always against the player in the long run.

- - - - -

-Craps would need to have the ability to carry a bet, with the ability to bet again at each roll. Some bets win/lose on each die cast, others go until point is hit or bust. There are many specialty bets in craps.

-Blackjack would require a way to track which cards are already in play and/or have already been played in the deck(s); unless you just wanted to go with numbers and forget about suits. Also double downs and card splits.

Either of those is way beyond my ability.

- - - - -

It is far in the future. It might be better just to create some entirely new games that aren't around right now on Earth. These new games could be designed in such a way that it would be easier to make the code for them.

[Burzmali]

Simply problem with roulette. There are 38 staight up bets (1 number, odds 38:1), 57 split bets (2 numbers, at 19:1), 12 street bets (3 numbers, 12 2/3:1), 22 corner bets (4 numbers, 9 1/2:1), 11 line bets (6 numbers 6 1/3:1), 3 column bets (12 numbers, 3 1/6:1), 3 dozen bets (12 numbers, 3 1/6:1), the odd even bets (18 numbers, 2 1/9:1), the high and low bets (18 numbers, 2 1/9:1), and the red and black bets (18 numbers, 2 1/9:1).

That gives the player 152 possible bets, right now the screen can fit about 6 options with getting overcrowded. That means that menus would have to be between 3 and 4 layers deep to cover all the bets.

I would be happy to code the back end of any of these games if someone could explain a way to make the front end usable.

[FAD]

What about slot machines? Those could be done with a string of randoms with a payback chart, so the player could have the chance of losing, breaking even, 'hitting it big', or anything in between. Slots are the most popular casino games anyway. Results could be just numbers, pips, or make some little pictures tied to the random result: '2 synthetic chickens and a hogei salmon pays 3:1 '

I do believe that I can code a working but simple slot machine. I'll give it a shot then post my results... If it works, then we'll have a preliminary foundation to work with for other games.

I'd also like to see a choice about how much you wanted to bet, even if it is just a multiple choice. i.e. 100,500,1000,... or whatever. Betting the same amount every time would get boring too. The 'bet amount' question could have the exit game/return to 'lobby' command. The 'lobby' could have game choice with the exit casino command. Most people gambling like to up the stakes when they get ahead. This is how casinos win back most of their payouts, because the odds are always against the player in the long run.

I like that idea as well. It shouldn't take much to code different amounts to bet, using the first "bet" code and simply increase the amount in increments for the others.

It is far in the future. It might be better just to create some entirely new games that aren't around right now on Earth. These new games could be designed in such a way that it would be easier to make the code for them.

Maybe give the games some weird, alien-like names could help make the games look futuristic as well.

[FAD]

Alrighty. I've got a very crude and simplistic game made up -- although it's not actually slots, it does work! It manipulates players credits (and rins) based on random chance. And, the game has 3 levels to choose from (each costing more to play with a greater pay-off/lose margin)

Burzmali, I've sent you the XML in email so if you want to do your "back end" stuff to make the game more enjoyable to play. It needs a lot of TLC

dvlenk6, if you're interested in the XML as well, drop me an email at: [email protected] and I'll send you a copy.

I've temporarily set the game up in the Commonwealth Residentials so to easily test it out. Chose the freighter and sold everything in the hold to get 1000 credits to play the first game. (actually, since the coding is so crude right now, you can play any level at the start of the game without selling anything. You'll either win or lose as well as have the amount to play deducted from your account, so there's a chance you could go in debt!)
Once we get this game ironed out as well as more games to add in, we can move the casino to a higher level and make the graphics for it.

[dvlenk6]

debt is actually a pretty cool feature.
Bounty hunters could be dispatched to collect.
I don't know if you were planning on going with Black Market for the casino or not. Gambling debt could be used as another reason to bar the player from access to BM facilities throughout the game.

I sent you an email. Send me xml too

EDIT
People like me couldn't possibly survive the net without smilies

[FAD]

I agree with the debt but, I really don't think a player should be able to play without having the right amount of credits to start a game. In the current code, you could lose more than you actually bid, so that in itself could make a player go in debt.
So, further coding needs to be placed in that will check the players credit amount and deny them if they do not have enough to initially play. Would also deny them if they went in debt from playing and losing big.

I'm not sure what sovereign to place the casino in, but the BM does seem to hold that kind of appeal...but then again, any RL casino owner would say they're businessmen/women and not underground. So in that aspect, the corporate would be favored...but then again, again, the BM is the only sovereign that sends bounty hunters, and that would really help give more appeal to the casino and the coding for bounty hunters is already there in the BM. I dunno, go BM?

YGM too.

[dvlenk6]

I got the xml, and the credit card one too. Thanks for those.
Haven't got to test them yet. Will do so tomorrow (later today, I guess I mean)

...but then again, any RL casino owner would say they're businessmen/women and not underground...

'Businessmen' involved in organized crime don't normally come out into the open about that until after the federal racketeering/income evasion hearings are over.

...but then again, again, the BM is the only sovereign that sends bounty hunters, and that would really help give more appeal to the casino and the coding for bounty hunters is already there in the BM. I dunno, go BM?...

I guess Corporate Cruisers could fill the role of bounty hunters?
Might be a little over kill. Maybe a wing of centurion 'police'.
Or we could make a new ship for the corporate bill collectors.
I don't really care which sovereign. Could even be it's own independent, as far as I'm concerned, with a flashy new chromed station, gaudy blinking neon signs, the works.

[FAD]

Interesting options. I like the idea of having bounty hunters go after the debtor. If we went independant, we could "borrow" a bounty hunter from the BM -- this could add mystery in wondering if there are any ties with indies and the BM. Or as you've stated, go corporate and create a new ship to go after the debtor. I think having centurions as bounty hunters could confuse the player so that one's iffy.

I'm thinking that the penalty pay-off for debtors is going to be a little tricky. I think we'll have to set a certain amount to charge the player (similar to the BM collector). Reason being, I don't think there's a way to code and "track" the amount the player could go in debt each time...or is there? But at any rate, since each debt could vary, what about setting an 'interest rate' on top of the bill and make it pretty stiff? That could cover most debts. Wouldn't want the player going in debt for 50000 credits and the penalty pay-off only being 25000 credits. Some could get wise to that and abuse it.

Or maybe set a global function that will bar the player from doing business with whatever sovereign we decide upon for the casino, with an option in the docking screen to "Undock" because the player is barred and "Pay debt" to clear the player. Or we could get drastic like the BM and if the player has the credits, deduct upon docking. But if they don't.....airlock jettison and end game.

[dvlenk6]

Yeah, high interest rates are good. The penalty fine could be set according to a percentage of the debt. Just calculate the percentage and tack it on with to the principle debt with:
(objSetData gPlayerShip "debt" (divide (multiply (gPlayerShip "debt") 125) 100))
for a 25% interest fee/fine. I think objSetData would be the right command. If you aren't sure about that, I'd guess Burzmali would know, or better yet, George, if he reads this.
With a fine, and being barred ( or killed) when already in debt, there wouldn't be any need to track more than one debt at a time.

The higher the debt after losing, the worse the fine to get out of hock. I think out the airlock if you dock and can't pay. Unless you feel that being barred is enough penalty. That seems pretty tough too, if the casino is corporate and you couldn't use any of the corporate stations, because they are pretty important come late middle game. It would be hard to go through without using those stations.

Being barred from Black Market (or especially for a new independent sovereign) stations wouldn't be as bad. So if you're going BM for the casino, I'd say airlock. If corporate, I'd say barring would be enough.

EDIT - random bounty hunter encounters in any case would be a good idea, IMO.

[Burzmali]

Okay, here is the "futuristic" game that should be easy enough to lay out.

The game is played with a player and the dealer, with a deck of cards numbered from 1 to 10 (eastern rules has an unlimited number of cards and western rules has only one of each). Here are the steps:

1. The player places a bet.
2. Dealer deals one card to both himself and the player, face up.
3. If the player's card has a higher number, the player wins.
4. Else, the player may elect to double his bet for to continue playing.
5. If the player continues (called pushing), the dealer deals an additional card to both himself and the player.
6. The player can continue to elect to push until he wins (having the highest total), falls behind the dealer by 10 points or more, or 5 cards have been dealt to each player.

I can have this coded up over the weekend, hopefully, as all I am required to track are (at least for the eastern version) are totals, the pot and the round. The player's options are easy too, play again or quit if they win or lose, and push, play again or quit in the middle of the game.