Fuel rebalancing

[Arisaya]

On an unrelated note, I bet longzhu spheres were intended to be used primarily as ammo for the Qianlong archcannon, and maybe emergency refuel in a pinch. However, using them to enhance devices is a much more powerful option, enough that I burn every last trading post order on a longzhu sphere each. They are also cheaper than higher level enhancers such as an ion power capacitor. Maybe if longzhu spheres could not enhance devices, the Qianlong would be useful, if not necessarily dominant.

perhaps longzhu pricing could be increased to reflect their utility, but I don't think the enhancing should be removed, as its the only one capable of repairing non-installed devices. (I think other enhancers should adopt the longzhu's use-screen, instead of attempting to enhance the currently active device automatically)

[Atarlost]

I'd prefer to see longzhus no longer enhance, which doesn't really make sense, but other enhancers actually be available in useful numbers and for more damage types. It would reduce the energyweapon bias in the game.

[Arisaya]

Yeah, if other balance changes were made, it would be fine to remove it, but as a singular change, it would be bad.

[Ttech]

I'd prefer to see longzhus no longer enhance, which doesn't really make sense, but other enhancers actually be available in useful numbers and for more damage types. It would reduce the energyweapon bias in the game.

personally i like them, theres nothing wrong with something that can make any weapon and many devices more powerful

[PM]

As much as it pains me to say it, I think longzhu spheres should not enhance items as they do now. Maybe repair items, and maybe enhance up to 30% or some other low value in one use like molbidium field crystals do. The main reason for this is so the Qianlong archcannon would become useful. The weapon itself is good, but the problem is +150% level X devices are so much more powerful than a fully charged Qianlong archcannon, and the easiest way to get said overpowered devices is to use longzhus.

Other consumables to enhance weapons are too rare (or non-existent in case of tier 4 weapons). There should be more of them, and maybe add new consumables such as those that enhance positron and plasma weapons. There could be expensive dock services that can enhance items, at least for those who do not have the patience to spam Ingenuity.

[george moromisato]

I'd prefer to see longzhus no longer enhance.

As much as it pains me to say it, I think longzhu spheres should not enhance items as they do now.

I'm inclined to agree. I'd like to start by weakening their enhance ability and perhaps, as more enhancement items are added, reduce or eliminate the ability further.

We have a few options and I'm interested in opinions:

1. In all cases, I think longzhu spheres should enhance Sung weapons as they do now, with no restrictions (and there should be a chance that Sung ships have enhanced weapons).
2. We could limit enhancement to 30% or some other value, as PM suggests.
3. We could have enhancements decay.
4. We could have a probability of failure above a certain enhancement level.

[Drako Slyith]

4. We could have a probability of failure above a certain enhancement level.

You could do a formula for that such as chanceToFail = enhancement that they're going for -60%. If it's less than 0 change it to 0. You could even add maybe 5% on top of that, so there's always a chance to fail. So to get that 150%, there's a 95% chance to fail. Then, it gets steadily more risky.

[Arisaya]

I think we should start with a change to first add more normal enhancers, and then at the same time nerf longzhu's, but not nerf longzhus before normal enhancer frequency is increased.

[PM]

1. In all cases, I think longzhu spheres should enhance Sung weapons as they do now, with no restrictions (and there should be a chance that Sung ships have enhanced weapons).
2. We could limit enhancement to 30% or some other value, as PM suggests.
3. We could have enhancements decay.
4. We could have a probability of failure above a certain enhancement level.

Option #1 would be fine if there were any Sung weapons and shields aside from the Nandao bolt cannon and one-of-a-kind dragon slaver items. That issue aside, buffed particle weapons will be useless against anything with worldship armor, and too weak against the likes of the Iocrym.

Option #2 would be good too. Maybe have it randomly choose from 20% to 50%. Ingenuity gives 20% or 40%, Weapon optimizer ROMs give from 20% to 50% more DPS depending on the original weapon speed. Shops can spawn items with enhancements up to +50%.

Option #3 is annoying, but there is precedent with reflector shield crystals. (Personally, I consider reflector shield crystals "Too Awesome to Use".) The boost would need to be large to justify a temporary advantage, at least 50%, maybe up to 100%. Otherwise, I would save the longzhus for a more practical use.

Option #4... What are the consequences for failure? Aside from consuming the enhancer, will the failed attempt blow up the device (like in Nethack)? If so, that would be bad, even if George wants more Nethack-like behavior. No one but a save-scumming munchkin would risk destroying their prized state-of-the-art device just for a few more +10%'s. If the only consequence for failure is loss of the enhancer, this may not fix the problem of using every longzhu as enhancers. If the fail chance is too high, longzhus will not be risked, rendering this moot. Otherwise, the player will just burn every longzhu to get a +150% device as before, only instead of getting two or three, he gets just one due to failures destroying longzhus.

[Amilir]

Option #1 would be fine if there were any Sung weapons and shields aside from the Nandao bolt cannon and one-of-a-kind dragon slaver items.

We could redefine that as weapons used by sung.

That issue aside, buffed particle weapons will be useless against anything with worldship armor, and too weak against the likes of the Iocrym.

How in the name of anything is that relevant? The sung are a midgame enemy anyway. Half the problem with longzhus is that they're much more powerful in the endgame. If anything, that statement is good for the game.

1. In all cases, I think longzhu spheres should enhance Sung weapons as they do now, with no restrictions (and there should be a chance that Sung ships have enhanced weapons).
2. We could limit enhancement to 30% or some other value, as PM suggests.
3. We could have enhancements decay.
4. We could have a probability of failure above a certain enhancement level.

Personally, I like probability of failure. Something like 1/(enhancements+1) chance of success maybe. That way +150% is still ridiculous, but you could use longzhus like you would a weapon optimizer.

I think we should start with a change to first add more normal enhancers, and then at the same time nerf longzhu's, but not nerf longzhus before normal enhancer frequency is increased.

I disagree. Enhancers are not critical to the game. If you rebalance longzhus, the rest of the game will fall into place. If you add enhancers, all that happens it that the game gets easier. The qianlong is still useless. Rebreak a bone so that it sets correctly. Adding enhancers can come later, preferably at the same time make more enemies use enhancements.

[PM]

How in the name of anything is that relevant? The sung are a midgame enemy anyway. Half the problem with longzhus is that they're much more powerful in the endgame. If anything, that statement is good for the game.

You are right, I meant it that way.

It is relevant because a +150% particle beam weapon is not overpowering late in the game. Worldship armor takes no damage from particle damage, and Iocrym take so little if any damage that the player is better off with Lamplighter or something similarly fierce. Maybe in the mid game, +150% particle weapons are overpowered, but the mid game can be skipped with a jumpdrive, which may be found for sale at shops as early as the first system after St. K's.

My favorite strategy is to get a jumpdrive early, skip to the end, fabricate all of my endgame equipment, then return to the mid game and crush everything.