boxed in..as in I wrote myself into a corner.

[shanejfilomena]

In the re-write of the Auviq I took the lessons I learned from George and all the great minds that helped me generate my first few official .xml ( which the lessons have taught me : I sux. so I decided to re-write them )

In the Auviq I lost the Original story line because it was horrible compared to current stories and ongoings. Soo, I started to dress the Auviq as a mission Adventure not for Commander Filo ...but for Domina and Oracus ( the rest is basically "Scenery" ).

Commander Filo continues at his stations, the Hurin destroyers still fly , Number 6 is still out there but with a new toy :
the Triple Flenser ;the systems are ..Ill not tell you but it is more real time space-like if I have to give up anything.
=========================

However I have come up to a point reading the Forums last night where :

There are three broad classes of entities: galactic creatures (like pteravores); Ancient Races (like Iocrym); and more advanced entities (like hierodules).

In the story as I understood it , Oracus and Domina are of the same Race ; but they are NOT Iocrym.
.... and did anybody tell George what a Hierodule is? LOL it is NOT a highly evolved entity LOL

However, it would fit IF Domina and or Oracus were basically in the "same" class of Hierodule but yet more of the Kronia ( skaves regularly released from bondage that could have revolted and took power or did a Moses Event and led their people to freedom ) since we are talking mostly a Greek "itemology" ( new word: copyright it before google gets it ) .

If in fact the slaves took advantage of a Kronia / Saturnalia to rise up and Domina and Oracus fought for their places ; then the line I read last night :

While the "cultured" races are protected by higher powers. The "savage" races are not. They are free game: anyone can attack them if they want.
Someone has to enforce the agreement, so certain individuals were granted higher powers (they are essentially exempt from the agreement). They intervene if someone tries to violate the agreement. For instance, if a race tries to secretly acquire higher powers.

/this line would fit in with the potential struggle of Oracus and Domina in the begining then later, the " Pact " of the Ancients comes in to start the battle between Domina and Oracus with the Iocrym trying to play mediator and peacekeeper for the highest bidder ( winner ) because they had built these great machines with intelligence so that would obviously lead the race to decadence and Sloth so they could in no way defeat a powerful creature or race and therefore would simply choose to contract their services.....

NOW a TEASER......MY story line ( some of it from a Brothers of Oracus Station, you get different parts of it from Domina stations, and (including) the Penitent Sanctum which you have to befriend before they turn friendly to the player )
((((((txt and .xml were not allowed to upload, so i did it in a quote ))))))

name="Who is Oracus ?"

"Oracus is an Ancient force within the Universe. Over the many millennia he has been known by many names and served by many people."
"The Ancient histories tell us that just over 300 million of our years past, a great strife occurred in the universe, "
"The Ancients held many fears within our physical realm and events became far too complicated for compromise. "
"The Ancients sought to take actions to defend their territories against the advancement of other races. "
"Including yours.. "

"Eventually the expansion into space by the younger races forced a situational Compromise of the Ancients, "
"However, not all Ancients were willing to make that compromise which was selfish and one sided. "
"Because we are Older then most we believed we held the answers that others did not and sought to help the races evolve. "
"But this was not the plan of the Others. It was their design that the races be subjugated and contained. "
"The result was a war, Oracus fought the Ancients for the freedoms of the new races to share with us the universe. "
"The result was the current situation..The Ancients befriended the new races while building a containment field to protect their territories."

[shanejfilomena]

Sooooo, now that that is up: took awhile to write it out , I basically paint a picture along the very lines that I understood the story : long before reading the conversation post I was quoting from last night......

So I think I have it right.....but the post i read last night : http://www.neurohack.com/transcendence/ ... f=2&t=4453

left questions about Genisis that I fear I could not write out beyond what i already put in the Auviq and appears close to the explained situation ( which I am proud of ) but the Genisis of Domina and Oracus is going to come up eventually.....

and very frankly , Hierodule just does not cover it....there has to be more meat to the Genisis because they are Obviously NOT Iocrym, and would have had to be SOMETHING prior to a Hierodule.

And what "exactly" was my "box' that i created : the very same one George made....Hierodule does not cover it completely, they had to be something before that....but their uprise to power as the forces we seek in the universe is logical if they were Hierodule acting on orders of their Deity......So what the heck were they? .....mmmm...

I can generate a story.....but I would need a name for a race for them....after that i would need like 1/2 hour because I was to put it in the Archives and got stuck when George said : Hierodule.....that left the end wide open with no answer that I could write into the Archives.

[shanejfilomena]

Ok : i was re-reading the Archive.......it runs right along the lines I was wanting for my stories of Oracus to fit in but......

together they still only go but so far, still there is going to be a need to fill out the Genisis for future version because if you get the story line at all you dsee it basically that Oracus and Domina came to power much the same way but were tossed into opposition over a disagreement .....in future versions there needs to be more to this : my story line only takes what I figure of the story and lays it out : but player will eventually want the mythology of Domina and Oracus Genisis filled in in future versions....the more you play the more the story gets " deeper " and the closer you get to ......whatever George is building out there.......

[shanejfilomena]

I was just talking to a member of the Brother of Oracus : the story line unfolded as this :

Code: Select all

	 <Action name="Tell me about Domina" key="O">
								(block Nil
									(setq gPrevScreen "Main")
									(setq gPrevPane "Default")
									(scrShowPane gScreen "SanOracusBA")
									)
							</Action>
							<Action name="Undock" cancel="1" key="U">
								<Exit/>
							</Action>

						</Actions>

					</Default>
					   <SanOracusBA>
					<OnPaneInit>
							(scrSetDesc gScreen
"Domina is an Ancient force within the Universe. Over the many millennia he has been known by many names and served by many people."
                                    )
						</OnPaneInit>
						<Actions>
						    <Action name="Do not give me that trash: Who is She ?" key="O">
								(block Nil
									(setq gPrevScreen "Main")
									(setq gPrevPane "Default")
									(scrShowPane gScreen "SanOracusB1")
									)
							</Action>
							
							<Action name="Return to Main Foyer" default="1" key="C" cancel="1">
								<ShowPane pane="Default"/>
							</Action>
						</Actions>
					</SanOracusBA>
							  
					  <SanOracusB1>
						<OnPaneInit>
							(scrSetDesc gScreen
		"The Ancient histories tell us that Domina and Oracus were once the Hierodules of an ancient Deity..  "
		"We do not have a record of the Deity or any of the conditions they experienced prior to their Ascension. "
		"We do not know the nature or if this Deity continues to exist in any other manifestations other then within "
								" Oracus and Domina. "
								)
						</OnPaneInit>
						
						<Actions>
	<Action name="So before they were Chosen , they were Religious Servants ?" default="1" cancel="1" key="C">
								<ShowPane pane="SanOracusB1B"/>
							</Action>
							<Action name="Return to Main Foyer" default="1" cancel="1" key="C">
								<ShowPane pane="Default"/>
							</Action>
						</Actions>
					</SanOracusB1>
					
					<SanOracusB1B>
						<OnPaneInit>
							(scrSetDesc gScreen
	"Yes, Even the Ancients had Deities. Oracus and Domina served in their beliefs loyally and were rewarded. "
	"Much the same way the rest of us attempt to follow our beliefs with or without reward, Loyalty is everything. "
	"Because we do not exactly know at this time, The exact nature of their ascension and circumstances surrounding them. "
	"and I tell you this as one young race member to another... "
	"There are older members of Our kind that served Oracus and even Domina long ago. "
	"Descendant of those peoples still carry on their loyalties deeper in the universe, closer to Oracus and Domina. "
								)
						</OnPaneInit>
						
						<Actions>
		<Action name="I might meet these peoples then? they can tell me more?" default="1" cancel="1" key="D">
								<ShowPane pane="SanOracusB1C"/>
							</Action>
							<Action name="Return to Main Foyer" default="1" cancel="1" key="C">
								<ShowPane pane="Default"/>
							</Action>
						</Actions>
					</SanOracusB1B>
					
					<SanOracusB1C>
						<OnPaneInit>
							(scrSetDesc gScreen
								"Yes, I believe that might be possible.. "
								)
						</OnPaneInit>
						
						<Actions>
		<Action name="The followers of Domina say Oracus is out to destroy the universe.." default="1" cancel="1" key="C">
								<ShowPane pane="SanOracusB1D"/>
							</Action>
	<Action name="The followers of Oracus say that Domina is out to destroy the Universe.." default="1" cancel="1" key="C">
								<ShowPane pane="SanOracusB3"/>
							</Action>
							<Action name="Return to Main Foyer" default="1" cancel="1" key="C">
								<ShowPane pane="Default"/>
							</Action>
						</Actions>
					</SanOracusB1C>

Still keeps and open end and puts the "Hierodule" George mentioned in the post i was referring to earlier in a proper perspective.

I think the Bother was keen in his way of telling the story.....notice it is not the entire story.....LOL Im not giving it away yet

[george moromisato]

Very interesting!

A few comments:

1. I did not mean to imply that Domina and Oracus were hierodules (if I did, I'm sorry). Nor are they considered part of the Ancient Races. They are unique entities. [In Transcendence.xml I believe they are refered to as "Core Minds" but I don't know if I'll stick with that terminology.]

2. I do have a genesis for Domina and Oracus worked out, though I don't think it will be relevant until Part III. However, I like your speculation that Domina and Oracus were once servants of some ancient deity. There is truth to that, assuming a sufficiently loose interpretation of the word 'deity'. I can certainly imagine that some people in the galaxy have that belief.

3. The Ancient Races do not have supernatural powers. Though their technology is more advanced than human tech, you can easily imagine how it works: they consume energy to effect physical changes in the universe. The difference is in the amount of energy that they control. Similarly, Oracus does not have supernatural powers (at least not in the context of the Transcendence universe). Just as a mafia boss in prison can wield power as long as he has a telephone, Oracus wields power just by communicating. The difference is in the vastness of his intelligence.

[PKodon]

George:

So, are you using the "Mafia boss in prison with a telephone" as just an example of how Oracus is able to wield power, or are you also saying that Oracus is what most would term "evil" in regard to the way he controls things and people, and the goals he has?

I know, you don't wish to reveal too much of the story, just yet, but, we've had a lot of speculation on whether it's "good" to be following Domina, why Domina appears to fear Oracus, is Oracus the real "good guy" and Domina a deceiver out to destroy the human race, and willing to use humans she (assuming gender even applies to beings such as Domina and Oracus) coerces into following her by enticements to become like her when we reach the "core".

I've been playing with this game a long time, and, I guess there are some moral issues I'd like cleared up enough to even determine if I really want to be playing this game.

PK

[shanejfilomena]

Mind you: I just got up: it's saturday and i got a new bed :

anyway: i had to think hard on what can tell because in the .xml you have to DO Something before the Brothers tell you the rest of the story.........it is a locked screen that only is supposed to activate given the status of something else :

however......George hit it on the nose with no problem, LOL . but he ( Oracus ) does not have a Physical communication system ( which is why I used the term "ascension" : Domina does not use physical communication either , her communication is basically telepathic as we see in the Sanctum where you commune with her....)......most " superior beings " ( including the way the Ringers are seen as telepaths ) Domina and Oracus are supposed to also be Telepathic but, very powerful ones due to their Ascension : it is by this that I supposed they are able to communicate.

As for " supernatural " I tried hard to not go that far, the Ancient races employ technology and have an agreement in some terms : Ascension is just it's definition that the person / being is able to access super-physical abilities like telepathic, telekinetic........
(( NOT saying they can use telekinetic abilities, but ascension opens the door or " possibilities " and speculations))

BECAUSE the brothers of Oracus and Sisters of Domina are religious stations I had to hold close keeping "religiously toned " but based on the story we got in part 1:
Oracus IS in a Prison.....after the war he is said to have been " asleep for 300 million years " and will soon " awaken " ( Stasis containment ? )
........as in possibly the Ancient container is running out of power or it can only hold a being for that long and has to automatically open as not to kill the occupant.......??? ( do not answer that, its part of a story you have to achieve something else to get )

The trick I had to accomplish with the goal of trying to bring out what I understood of the D&O was to take it as both a religious story based on most logical grounds : Greek Mythological foundation : many heroes deified , many rulers were " blessed " with the love of the deity.....

The story i gave up already indicates that Domina and Oracus are real people.....just pretty interesting people that have a story line that you can not get in the young parts of the universe, which means you must get closer to the core to get the harder facts.....

AS for who is good or not so perfect......the game itself has the answer , the Brothers of Oracus can only tell you what the game has already told us about what Oracus was fighting about and for.......and why Domina must have him stopped.....

They both require fighters for their side which means Domina feels she can not rely on the Iocrym to protect her interests...and the Gamma Crucis.....well, if you did not get that part yet.............you do not get the rest of the story here either

P.s : PKDon : ( moral question reply )
fighting for Domina or Oracus is like fighting for anything you choose to believe in , it is about Loyalty .
There is no right or wrong in Loyalty....if you question your faith in something , then the rules change.
In Christianity does it not say " and he is a jealous god " ? it never tells you if god is good or right compared to others , it is how you choose to believe based on the presentation of what is right / makes the best sense for you at the time.

More people have died in the name of Deities then in all the wars prior to the earth year 2000.

In the game your exposed to the Sisters of Domina from the start....but the real answer is NOT in my expansion of the story given in part 1......it is in part one and a Moral battle you must face when you get that information of what are you fighting for and what happens if you win...or loose...but it does not say what side you could win for that would bring the result that is positive or negative to the young races..
I kind of expand, based on what i figured of the situation : whom is whom and serving whom(?) by which the whom is (?) and where the result takes you if you choose whom(?) ( obviously not telling that part).....but it has more to do with something other then Domina and Oracus and the religious stations......there is a race that believes Oracus is good and has been good to them for a very long time......you have met them before...you have met the enemies of Domina....you have met the Loyalists to both.

AND you have already fought on BOTH sides. LOL But you fought because you felt it was the right thing to do.. it had nothing to actually do with Oracus or Domina..... but in the deeper game story ,through the Player , Domina fights to for Oracus in that moment because she is not evil but the battle was against an evil......which means Oracus is not evil, just not exactly on her side...

what a twist I love it , it will keep you guesing like Burger King and Mc Donalds had us guessing who really started/ owned them.....brothers! LOL

[george moromisato]

George:

So, are you using the "Mafia boss in prison with a telephone" as just an example of how Oracus is able to wield power, or are you also saying that Oracus is what most would term "evil" in regard to the way he controls things and people, and the goals he has?

I know, you don't wish to reveal too much of the story, just yet, but, we've had a lot of speculation on whether it's "good" to be following Domina, why Domina appears to fear Oracus, is Oracus the real "good guy" and Domina a deceiver out to destroy the human race, and willing to use humans she (assuming gender even applies to beings such as Domina and Oracus) coerces into following her by enticements to become like her when we reach the "core".

I've been playing with this game a long time, and, I guess there are some moral issues I'd like cleared up enough to even determine if I really want to be playing this game.

PK

Yes, the mob boss is really just an example.

I've probably said this before, but it is worth repeating: I'm not trying to write some kind of morality tale. Nor am I trying to play "gotcha" with the player, forcing them to do something that they consider morally wrong.

Without confirming or denying, and just to use an example, if it turned out that Domina is "evil" then I would design the game such that defeating Domina were possible and led to a satisfying conclusion (assuming the player succeeds). Similarly, if it turns out that Oracus is "evil" then it should be possible to defeat him.

I hope there are no moral issues preventing anyone from playing the game. If so, I would love to know.

[shanejfilomena]

I was thinking on this again while we were putting in the ceiling earlier at a relative's new house we are building :

I think i was a little too hard: the thing is : .in my .xml I try to only take the story i have from the game, I only added the one part about religious servant because it was suggested and fits in to the whole Genesis question and goes along with the Frank Herbert-ish style the player is working on : Gods are not Born, they are made. the player is not a Star Fighter..but becomes one.......
So you see, it is about evolution... and unfortunate circumstance of life. not morality.

My questions regarding my tinkering with the story is that i know there are holes in it left for the creation of part 2....but there are things a human mind demands of all things: namely a Genesis and a justification........sometimes the Genesis IS the justification, as in the evolution of Domina...
Where I take the story is to pull it out where it can be seen ( I remember a comment that was made saying " great game but no real story to it " ......obviously they were not paying attention ..it has a story and that story is the oldest struggle to protect humans from themselves. ) as for Oracus.......i think he is cool but and Anarchist kind of cool. he seems to me to represent the desire to be free and have freedom without thinking through the entire scenario that involves paying the piper.....taxes are a must for any system to endure.
Power without structure to sustain the distribution of that power is no power at all .

so, the question is not Morality, it is loyalty : to an ideal or to a structured system. much like American political voting, you can vote for the ones that really are not seriously going to be allowed to win or you can vote for the better structured representation that might have a good chance of helping your species survive.

[shanejfilomena]

ok: the biggest problem I had was doing the "Tell me about Domina"

because our minds demand justification, her story is there but how do OTHERS see her? how do the people on the other side see her forces.....her power, her designs for the universe.....

this is where I had been going because you know I try to study the Hostiles since I like to mine and got the chance to see the hostiles behavior and figured that there had to be more to the people then just the ships to shoot ........

working with Oracus was very easy for me because i dealt with the Ares and they were more mysterious . the Hauri helped me sort out Oracus fast because they give a more yin-yang story for me to draw on.....

Anyway, I think I got it in terms of the perspective and the story parts : so i think it sounds more believable yet tells you nothing that if you play the Auviq and later play part 2 nothing would give a player any expectation or indicate that I had any knowledge or figuring of what might be in part 2 based on the current story line ( which I don't but if the Auviq trips over something it is completely accidental )

And I DO NOT and never did believe Domina could be up to no good : i believe that there is an ancient part of the universe that if disrupted could cause annihilation of the known universe and that is what she is protecting against Oracus and his minions.

Like the All Spark....?

However, there are TWO things you must do to get at these " controversial " story parts in the Auviq: without both completed you get nothing but a few extra friendlies that can accidentally destroy your ship.
EDIT :
maybe it was 3 things .....you have to.. then you got to ........then you got to..... 3 three things yes three things.
but there is a twist in the works.......if you take all three items ( these are actually missions not related to the stations with the stories in them those stations are just " there " : so do not go in thinking that everything would be good to just get past the guards )
the missions in the game, experience / experiences......that will all figure in to your access and status I made it hard even for myself because to test each facet of the code I got to fly the game and trip every wire : then do it again in a wolfen.

[PKodon]

shanejfilomena:

So, I guess where I got lost in the beginning is how your story fits in with George's, but it seems you've said enough now that I've got an idea what you're talking about. At first, I thought you had gotten tired of waiting for George to write Part 2, and decided to write it yourself, or that George was getting tired, and decided to offload the job onto you.

Now, as I understand the above, there are two mods (or will be) that will expand Part 1 so that we get a glimpse into the world of Oracus, but we won't really get the full import till Part 2 comes from George. These don't replace Part 2, but rather go hand-in-hand with it.

I suspect that there may be a Part 3 to conclude the story, sometime in the next decade.

At any rate, I look forward to whatever comes out. It's an interesting game, from the fantasy/Sci-Fi perspective.

As for the moral part of things, I do believe in moral absolutes. The game world may not, but I do. I do find in the Bible that it says that God is ultimate good, and anything opposed to His will, is evil. Yet, within His sovereignty, because He is God, not a created or "evolved" being, He, and He alone, is able to allow "free will" in His creation. But, as with physical laws, there are consequences when we try to break them. (No, don't reply to this, I'm just stating my viewpoint, not asking for a debate about God.)

It was helpful to get down that the Transcendence universe does not have such a literal "supreme being", or, if it does, He/She/whatever (if you can even call something like that a "he" or "she") hasn't been revealed yet, and may even be left up to the player's imagination to decide the existence or non-existence of.

Within the Transcendence universe, I guess I would define "ultimate good" as that which promotes life, for creatures at all levels, from viruses and crystals, or even sub-atomic lifeforms, through creatures that may have moved on to other dimensions, and nothing within the game universe (including Domina and Oracus) can even comprehend. It would also be that which would put others (even others lower than itself) as just as important as, or even more important than, itself (not that I believe the "tree huggers" or "animal rights" people are necessarily right, either; there ought to be a balance); hiding dangerous truths and knowledge from those who have not the wisdom to safely handle them, revealing them as new levels are achieved; promotes peace and cooperation where applicable, yet does not necessarily remove hardship where it will result in growth and strength.

On the flip side, "ultimate evil" would be that which seeks power for itself, regardless of it's effect on others, in many or most cases with higher level life forms preying on, using, and manipulating lower life forms for their own ends and purposes; perhaps using deception and "secret knowledge" (perhaps some of those dangerous truths, high-level technology, genetic manipulation without concern for the consequences); only to discard them like so much trash when they've served their purpose; while stifling growth in others that might pose a threat to their plans; fomenting strife even among it's allies and followers, at times, to further it's ends.

These are just some thoughts on how the concepts of "good" and "evil" could be within the game. I realize that, within the confines of a game universe, it's possible that neither side be fully "wrong" or "right", for both sides to be mistaken about many things (even these "ascended" beings). In my view of the game, I have considered the possibility even that, in the end, there really IS an "ultimate evil", which Oracus and Domina (and their followers) will have to join forces in order to contain/disable/remove from the universe. Though the movie "Cowboys and Aliens" may not be the best movie out there, I just saw it today, and it was interesting how the many differences were forgotten in the face of a common enemy more powerful than any of them alone could hope to handle; how bitterness from old wounds was set aside, and respect and friendship formed in the face of adversity.

I guess, basically, if it were my game, that's where I'd take it, whether or not the antithesis to the "ultimate evil" ever showed itself in the game. Still, looking back at my life, I find too many "coincidences" to be able to allow for no positive and negative forces influencing even our "free will". (As my sister told me once, it's still "free will" when you are reduced to two choices: life or death, yours or someone else's; even when neither choice is what you would prefer.)

[shanejfilomena]

I appreciate your input and this is exactly where I was going: I like to mine and it was this that led me to SEE the " hostiles" and get an idea that they are more then just targets..I have spent a good part of the year studying ways to get into the Hostile camps , explore things in the game that bring up so many questions like Decker demanding to kill Helios....and naturally Oracus.

I supppose you could say it was a Moral problem I had.. I needed to be sure I could write it without the player offending Domina .

And .....if you followed the post you would see I researched everything I could to be sure I portray Oracus without the supernatural trash.

My ideal in the Auviq adventure was originally to highlight Decker, the Corporation and the Ares but in the re-write somehow Oracus and Domina got involved and it became a mess centered on straightening them out.

I believe I did a nice job , and there is no offense taken on either side ; but in the game you DO meet believers and followers of Oracus......you DO met the belivers and followers of Domina......so the rest was making sure I did them both justice.

The Auviq is out: the secret ways of sdock screen are the tricks of RPC and George's own data base.
Nobody put me up to the task: it just worked out that way: the one thing i WAS going to change in the Auviq was the Pirates.....and then the rest just fell in . Dock screen Mania ensued and it is a huge work: the most complicated one I have ever done: everything I dsid prior was " nothing but a learning experience" compared to the Auviq Adventure.