Economic Tracker and Cloaking

[masterchief85]

Hi all, I've been a big fan of Transcendence for many years. I've just started a new game after a couple of years and I'm seeing how far I can get. I'd just like to make a couple of suggestions (apologies if they've been made before):

1. Cloaking Device: Maybe something that works for a short amount of time and drains a lot of energy so can only be used sparingly.
2. Economic Tracker: A page in the game that lets you see the prices of items in stations you have been to, making trading more profitable and efficient.

Any thoughts about these two? I'm mainly interested in the Economic part as I think something similar to what they have in Eve would make this game the full package, great though it is already.

[RPC]

For #2 you might try Captain's Log. I think it doesn't keep track of prices but it does keep track of station inventories of every station you've visited. It wouldn't be too hard (I hope) to hack in station prices into Captain's Log.

[masterchief85]

It would be good if someone could add this. I'm not much for coding but I think if this could be added to the log it would be a very useful feature and imo good for the game. I have 1.01 so perhaps a version for the pre and post 1.04 would be good? Any thoughts?

Specifically what the prices are at any given moment of things at stations you have visited. I tried tracking prices using a spreadsheet before (took a while after a few systems) and I noticed prices changed. The point is to be easier to find where to go for best prices to buy and sell at any point.

[FourFire]

We do have stealth armor, and someone has made a mod which includes upgraded variants of it:
http://xelerus.de/index.php?s=mod&id=986 (the armor zip)

[Watch TV, Do Nothing]

Each station type has a fixed % modifier that it pays for goods, which is specified in priceAdj. For example, a Corporate Ice Farm pays 150% for low-value food and 200% for a couple specific goods like He3 fuel rods. In some stations, like Black Market, prices are tied to your rank

BUT

for any specific sale the modifier is adjusted again based on the number of the item that you're selling that the station already has and that you have. As long as you have more of the item that you're trying to sell than the station does, you will always get the best price. For example, if you have already sold 50 fuel rods to the ice farm and come back with 25 in your hold, they will refuse to buy them at all. If you come back with 45, they will give you a really lousy price. If you come back with 51, they will give you the best price.

Needless to say, this would make a page that tracks prices at specific stations rather confusing, since prices will vary based on the contents of your hold. There is rarely any shortage of money in Transcendence except in the very early game and again for a brief period after the rin economy is introduced, so I oppose any kind of organized price tracking feature for the vanilla game. Players should be encouraged to keep moving, not to constantly backtrack so that they can milk every last credit out every piece of loot.

[masterchief85]

Fourfire: Will I have to start a new game if I install the mod or will it work ok in my current 1.01 game?
Watch TV Do Nothing: I understand your point of view but a lot of people who play this sort of game like the trading part of it. Its a big part of why I play space sims. The idea is to show the player what the price of an item is at stations the player has already visited at any point in time. Not the reason why the price is what it is. In my mind price fluctuation no matter the cause is good for realism anyway. I like to trade my way through if I can and fight if I have to. I'm doing quite well actually as I am up to the second system and nearly have enough credits for a nova-50 reactor through mostly trading, opportunism and scavenging. Maybe this is could be a mod rather than in the main game to please everybody? I really love this game (have played it for years) and I think the two things I've suggested would be great additions. Just my opinion though.

[masterchief85]

I am wondering if anyone is interested in doing the economic tracker mod I suggested? Just gauging the likelihood of it being made. I'm determined to have a good trading experience as well as everything else in the game so I've been using a spreadsheet to keep track of everything. Needless to say it slows things down a bit.

Idea outline:

If IRL stations would know what they want to buy and how much they want to pay. You as pilot you would copy this data onto your ships computer. This would happen every time you visit a new station. You search your database for the item you want to sell and you find the station that gives the best price. Basically if you find an item at station A, you find station B that will buy and trading becomes a more substantial part of the game.

Related: Remove upper limit on items to sell.

Related: Enemy bases respawn in time: After a certain amount of time groups would repair destroyed outposts and return.

Effect: Adds to depth of gameplay, causes the player to visit systems more than once, drawing them into the game world further. As you play the game you would still visit new systems, but what you leave behind still has life and value, making the game deeper.

Any thoughts?

[Cygnus.X1]

If IRL stations would know what they want to buy and how much they want to pay. You as pilot you would copy this data onto your ships computer. This would happen every time you visit a new station. You search your database for the item you want to sell and you find the station that gives the best price. Basically if you find an item at station A, you find station B that will buy and trading becomes a more substantial part of the game.

While tracking that kind of data is doable, it's a substantial chunk of data to keep track of in-game and I would be concerned about performance hits. Also, station inventory fluctuates a certain random amount when you return to a previously visited system, so there is very little you can do to make sure your captured data is not out of date.

Related: Remove upper limit on items to sell.

There is a codified upper limit of items sold to individual stations, but I would think it's more precise to say this would make backtracking to find somewhere to sell specific goods at a bit more manageable.

Related: Enemy bases respawn in time: After a certain amount of time groups would repair destroyed outposts and return.

Dynamic Systems does this IIRC, and it's a huge chunk of coding.

Effect: Adds to depth of gameplay, causes the player to visit systems more than once, drawing them into the game world further. As you play the game you would still visit new systems, but what you leave behind still has life and value, making the game deeper.

Backtracking is always an option, so much so there's a score bonus category of "Never Backtracked". It's also a bit of the "2nd Quest" syndrome, in that having a player revisit previous sections of a game is often marketed as 're-play-ability' but the value adds of such things are highly subjective to the individual player. When I had all the time in the world to play video games, I didn't mind 2nd questing at all. Since then, with limited time, I don't really have the option to backtrack in most of the games I play. I'm not saying that's a concept killer, just that you have to factor in the potential preferences of the players.

[masterchief85]

Thanks for the detailed response. I understand the point of view you make. And I think the conclusion to draw is it's down to player preference, which is a valid point. However I've been searching for a spot on freelancer sim for years, one that basically lets you play as you want without a story getting in the way. Transcendence is by far the closest anyone has ever got in terms of openness, variety and accessibility.

With that in mind I am tempted to learn a bit of XML and to see if I can make something to make economic activity a viable choice in game. I think the most workable idea is the following:

A new screen in stations that buy and sell commodities which lists what all items in game and what their buy and sell prices are at that point in time at that particular station. It's not as ambitious as other ideas I've had but I think its the most workable and the data is there in the game already, just need a way to show it in the UI.

[Watch TV, Do Nothing]

masterchief85, have you tried the X series? I could never get into them but they are well-regarded.

[masterchief85]

Yes I have tried the X series and like you I couldn't get into it. Eve was close but it is not good value for money and it got repetitive fast. Transcendence is by far the best of the genre in my opinion.

I started a new game yesterday and I have been using the wiki as I play to help me find the best things to buy and sell and it has been very useful. I managed to get over 27000 credits in the first system alone so I may have solved my problem.

[Watch TV, Do Nothing]

other than the whole IN SPAAACE conceit transcendence is basically Diablo

[masterchief85]

I've never played Diablo but Trans gives the Han Solo feeling that the other games don't.

[masterchief85]

How about a Transopedia like the famous Civilopedia from Sid Meier's Civ series - a version of the wiki in the game? This could be very useful and solve a lot of problems for beginners and people wanting reference for detailed play.

[Watch TV, Do Nothing]

Roguelikes intentionally withhold information from the player. The sense of discovery is one of the things that is supposed to make the game fun. For several years Transcendence didn't even give stats for weapons, armor or shields until the player had equipped them or used an identification ROM (Rowena's).