spirit of Transcendence

[Betelgeuse]

What do you think is the spirit of Transcendence? I mean what makes it Transcendence the game that it is. What do you like about it and what wouldn't you like to see changed.

[Burzmali]

I've always seen Transcendence as a cross between Nethack and Diablo with elements of Elite thrown in for good measure.

Transcendence's greatest strength is that no two games are the same. Like all rogue-likes, it loses this towards the end where it becomes possible to acquire the "perfect" set of equipment for beating the game (QAC w/+25% Dam, Veil w/+150%HP, ICX, etc.).

As has been debated in other threads, I believe that unknown items are an important part of this, as it delays the point at which the player can begin to "perfect" themselves.

I also believe that complexity arises from simplicity. That means that a simple system with lots of choices is better that a complex system with few choices. In this recent push for multislot devices, I believe that the slot system works well as it is now, but introducing a few double slot devices won't ruin anything. However, I think that a system that forces a player to balance slots, weight and energy consumption might be too much for a game of this nature.

Finally, I believe that the core game is more important than the modding community. While having some cool new modding feature may be cool, but George has a limited amount of time to spend adding features to the game. Not every user is going to use mods, but everyone plays the same base game.

[Betelgeuse]

I believe that randomized weapons from game to game will go a long way in the exploration of the game right now you can know everything about the weapon the moment you see it for the first time and that leads to preferred builds and optimal builds.

As for the multi slot thing I think we need that so we can make choices. At the moment we just get the best our reactor can handle (weight never really enters into it for devices) and late game we can equip all we want with the only limit is the number of slots. The game as it stands is a bit too clear on what is better than something else it would be nice if we had a simple system with lots of choices but we don't. We just upgrade to the next level which imo isn't a real choice (not saying it is mandatory it just isn't an interesting choice in terms of gameplay).

Make the player make though choices and make them rethink them every time they play will add alot to the exploration of the unknown.

Trade routes are another great thing to find because they reward exploration but they are static if they where not the same from game to game it would reward people who like that kind of exploring.

Transcendence's greatest strength is that no two games are the same.

Well I agree that is its strong point but as I said much can be done to improve that. The games does not have that exploration feel as it used to when you didn't know everything about it and I want to prevent that with unclear choices and randomization.

[Burzmali]

I believe that randomized weapons from game to game will go a long way in the exploration of the game right now you can know everything about the weapon the moment you see it for the first time and that leads to preferred builds and optimal builds.

But that really screws with game balance. One spin of the RNG and you end up with Corsairs killing you 5 minutes into the game, and in the next, Ranx Dreadnoughts are declawed. It is better to have a selection of top level items that are very rare to find, but can be earned through some complex quest.

Space Rangers 2 does what you are suggesting to the extreme. Weapons are all unique. Each Rocket launcher has a Manufacturer, level, and weight. The Manufacturer and level determine the damage range, and maintenance requirements. Furthermore, every item can be both enhanced and modified. It is an impressive system, to say the least, and it works pretty well. However, the game is not a roguelike, and is designed to encourage the player to shop around for the best deal (and includes the best search feature I have ever seen.)

As for the multi slot thing I think we need that so we can make choices. At the moment we just get the best our reactor can handle (weight never really enters into it for devices) and late game we can equip all we want with the only limit is the number of slots. The game as it stands is a bit too clear on what is better than something else it would be nice if we had a simple system with lots of choices but we don't. We just upgrade to the next level which imo isn't a real choice (not saying it is mandatory it just isn't an interesting choice in terms of gameplay).

That's where we disagree, I think if the system doesn't have enough choice, you just add content, instead of adding complexity. Both will work, I just think that too much complexity will make the learning curve too steep for this type of game.

Make the player make though choices and make them rethink them every time they play will add alot to the exploration of the unknown.

If I have 30 slots total, 4 available and want to fit in a 9 slot item, I don't mind having to do a costs/benefits analysis to determine what to remove, once. However, doing it every time I pick up an item will get old really quick. New choices are good, the same choices again and again are tiring.

Transcendence's greatest strength is that no two games are the same.

Well I agree that is its strong point but as I said much can be done to improve that. The games does not have that exploration feel as it used to when you didn't know everything about it and I want to prevent that with unclear choices and randomization.

I guess I agree to disagree, playing a game where even the rules aren't staying put isn't too fun, well, unless it's Flux.

[Betelgeuse]

hmm then how do you get around the problem of when you add new items they either outclass or get outclassed by the current weapons? Adding more devices is nice but I don't see it adding more choices to the game at best in a static game it is just lowering the chances of getting what you really want and then it is just a waiting game.

As for the game balance I would love it if I had a game where the wind slavers came out of nowhere and where scary instead of knowing the exact tactics to use against the Ranx just like everyone else because it has become common knowledge. That would kill replayability for me. Random can still be balanced random doesn't mean anything goes it just means you don't know the exact power of it. It would come in a range.

[F50]

I would like it if the bad guys (except Iocrym) were somewhat random, but not the items themselves. Urak could have significant Rate Of Fire randomness. Cap ships could have additional weapons. Wind slavers might have dual particle cannons instead of shurikens sometimes. Viking II's might have particle beams sometimes. Some Corsair II's could have MAG's or Frags instead of Longbows. A Dreadnought with a short-ranged weapon could really throw a player off.

This could also be used to make ships more formidable late game regardless of ship type (but not to the extent of a Corsair II or Meth Enforcer using an Ares Lightning cannon).

[OddBob]

I would like some factions to be a lot more random in terms of ship loadout.
Pirates have absolutely no reason to be flying around in the same ships with the same loadouts.
The Ares military will be pretty standard, however.

[george moromisato]

I think this is a hard question to answer (probably because I haven't thought about it enough). But here are a few guiding principles off the top of my head:

1. Transcendence should be replayable (as with any proper rogue-like).
2. The mechanics of the game should be easily learned.
3. Experience should count (someone who's played 100 games should be consistently better than someone who's played 10 games).
4. The game should tell a story.
5. Playing Transcendence should be fun.

The above are probably too general, but I can't think of any that I would change to its opposite.

[F50]

I agree with Oddbob.

the Ranx would be pretty standard too. Unlike the Ares I think we should see a little variance for the Ranx as the current Ranx ships are a bit repetitive. The Ares and Commonwealth probably could use a new gunship class though (or two in the case of the CW. The Centurion and the CSC are pretty bland for one of the most common sovereigns around).

The Dwarg should appear to some extent in later systems (perhaps a dual cydocyst firing ship?). Those cydocysts are pretty nasty.

[Karl]

4. The game should tell a story.

It would great to see more of a story. I don't mean to be critical, but... currently, the game is currently pretty barren in the story department. I mean, you're not even sure what your character's motivation is--why you're flying around the galaxy shooting everything to smithereens and heading towards the galactic core. You just seem to "want" to go for reasons unknown.

[Petrus]

Undefined characters are what roguelikes are all about. However, it would be nice to have some more ways to develop your character in the way that you see fit (i.e. more in-depth missions, more abilities to communicate with the various factions).

[Blinzler]

Like, the ability to befriend certain factions which in turn makes you very unwelcome with others?

[dvlenk6]

If it's red, kill it.
If it's green, dock and see what's going on...
- - - - -
Nice and simple.
I'd like to see more difficult enemies, dangerous ones that could easily kill you; but in lesser numbers.
Also would like bases to be tougher to take out, especially the military ones.

[Karl]

Undefined characters are what roguelikes are all about.

That's not what George said THIS GAME is about, though. Roguelike games are an inspiration, not a prison cell.

For instance, about motivation: There really needs to be SOME sort of motivation to drive your character to do what you do. If not, then there's not much of a story there at all--at least, not one that makes sense--and then your "motivation" becomes just about winning the game or getting the highest score or whatever. Those are perfectly fine goals--nothing wrong with them--but they are player goals, not character goals... and if you are thinking ONLY in those terms then you are just not involved in the story or "role playing" at all.

Why the heck are you doing what you're doing? In some games, it's as simple as: "You're the hero, so be heroic". Other games just ignore story altogether. But "telling a story" is supposed to be one of the guiding principles of this game.

Maybe the story changes every game. Maybe the story, as it develops each game is a combination of randomly selected story elements and player actions. Ok, that would be cool. And maybe, having a single clear statement of "why am I here" would seem too confining to the open-ended gameplay. Maybe, but there IS a clear goal in the game, so at the very least there should be a reason for that--even if it's a reason of your own choosing.

It would be cool, actually, if at the beginning of the game the Sisters of Domina ask you "Why do you wish to go to the core, my child?" And then you could choose your answer, such as:

• "To save humanity"
  "To get rich"
  "To see what's out there"
  "Because I'm on a mission from God... er, Domina"
  "To avenge my father's death"
  "Because I think it would be fun"
  "It's a secret"
  or
  "I really don't know"

[Betelgeuse]

I want to go there so I can kick Domina ass

(btw nice post)