Make all non-omni Weapons have a 18 degree swivel

Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:55 pm

well full turning would help the ai alot. I often hide in its blind zones and hit them while they can't hit me.

Karl · Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:07 am

Betelgeuse wrote:I often hide in its blind zones and hit them while they can't hit me.

That's an exploit that needs to be fixed. So it looks like the AI weapons could use an 18 degree swivel, too.

Blinzler · Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:07 am

I'm not so sure about this. I think the AI is fairly good at hitting me whenever it wants to, especially in the early game while I'm tugging my tail between my legs and go the other way with some ships on my trail. The AI seems really good at hitting me while my line of fire is always off and turning & thrusting to change the angle is really teadius and generally not working so well.
But I know, everybody got skills, I'm obviously the only doofus... *gogetmycapandstandinthecorner*

Sponge · Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:35 am

I honestly don't really like this idea. It defeats the purpose of having multidirectional weapons. I'm a balance freak, and so the type of strong weapon I would make won't do tons of damage. It will have an above average minimum damage, and a 30 degree swivel turret. Reliable and accurate. If all weapons just had an 18 degree fire radius, it would become much easier to shoot at enemies, and much harder to shoot at a SPECIFIC enemy. Doubling the facings is the way to do it. You don't have fulent movement, but you do have weapons that are twice as accurate, and motion that is twice as smooth.

Blitz · Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:40 am

I just created an override mod which gives all ingame weapons an 18 degree swivel and posted it on the UTF. Heres the link
http://z8.invisionfree.com/Transcendenc ... topic=1986

I honestly don't really like this idea. It defeats the purpose of having multidirectional weapons. I'm a balance freak, and so the type of strong weapon I would make won't do tons of damage. It will have an above average minimum damage, and a 30 degree swivel turret. Reliable and accurate. If all weapons just had an 18 degree fire radius, it would become much easier to shoot at enemies, and much harder to shoot at a SPECIFIC enemy. Doubling the facings is the way to do it. You don't have fulent movement, but you do have weapons that are twice as accurate, and motion that is twice as smooth.

I agree with you on one point. Doubling the facings and improving the AI are the best ways to go but you can't do that right now. This is as Karl wrote

I agree that a better fix would be increasing the number of facings. The nice thing about this workaround, though (and it's really more of a workaround then a fix) is that it can be modded right now.

a workaround.

An 18 degree Swivel radius isn't much. Since that's the distance between each sprite, there is only one correct facing to hit a particular enemy. This would simply make it possible to hit any enemy with any shot, as long as you are skilled enough to face in the right direction.

it would become much easier to shoot at enemies, and much harder to shoot at a SPECIFIC enemy.

I don't think so. It isn't possible to aim at a specific enemy within one facing anyway.

This also helps the AI quite a bit too. Watch the opening screen of the game for a while, both with and without the mod and you'll understand. (But I did notice an autosentinel beat a hammerhead II and a Ferian Miner before getting destroyed by a Pentinent Gunship.)

That's what we call a 3d game engine.

Er..yes of course..I knew that.....

P.S. I just noticed that the opening screen says human female. Does that mean there are going to be other races later on?

Burzmali · Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:00 pm

Betelgeuse wrote:well full turning would help the ai alot. I often hide in its blind zones and hit them while they can't hit me.

So much so that the AI would be able to wipe out the player in a heart beat when it attacks in a swarm. The only way to give the player a chance would be to force the AI to miss, give them even weaker ships, or force them to use sub-optimal attack patterns (i.e. not simply lining up the player and making attack run after attack run.)

Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:55 pm

the game already has a chance to miss for the ai

its called fireAccuracy

Sponge · Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:47 pm

it would become much easier to shoot at enemies, and much harder to shoot at a SPECIFIC enemy.
I don't think so. It isn't possible to aim at a specific enemy within one facing anyway.

I disagree. An omni, or even a 18 degree swivel, weapon aims for you. If there are two enemies in that 18 degree zone, it will hit whichever one it wants to. A non omni weapon allows you to aim, granted you have to worry about facings, it takes one press on the up arrow to move yourself into a position where you can hit all oncoming enemies with a non omni. Agreed, if you don't care so much about which target you're hitting, this is a great fix. I, however, like to concentrate on single targets. I'll test out your mod if I get time later. It's a very ambitious idea. It's no small task overwriting all of the game's weapons:D!

OddBob · Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:53 pm

Quote:
That's what we call a 3d game engine.
Er..yes of course..I knew that.....

I know you knew that, it's sarcasm.

Anyhow, I tried out the mod, and I don't even notice at short range with no targeting rom, but at a long range with it, 18 degrees is a lot of ground and you can snipe rather more effectively. All in all, it's not too bad offensively (i was envisioning 18 degrees on either side) , but I'm still opposed to it on general principle.

dvlenk6 · Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:12 pm

I'm more or less against any changes that make the game easier. I think it needs to be harder, not easier.

Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:27 pm

hmm it seems to me it would make the game harder not easier because it would make the numbers of enemies more important. Right now you can fight one vs few most of the time due to most enemies not being the correct angles.

Burzmali · Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:07 am

Betelgeuse wrote:the game already has a chance to miss for the ai
its called fireAccuracy

So, you are giving the player an advantage by making the AI unable to fly in a straight line...

Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:09 am

So, you are giving the player an advantage by making the AI unable to fly in a straight line...

What? I don't really get your point here. The fireAccuracy is already in the game and the ai can fly straight.

Burzmali · Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:46 am

If the AI can fully turn, it should turn straight at the player and shoot. This will cause many players to die the moment they run into more than 2 Zulu. To counter this effect you have to make the AI miss, i.e. have the aim (and fly) away from the player.

Right now, I would bet good money that all fireAccuracy does is influence the formula the AI uses to lead shots. How useful do you think that will be with the AI drawing a bead on your freighter with a beam weapon?

Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:23 am

didn't say it wouldn't change the game in terms of balancing
but it is something that most people point to when they first start playing the game

solutions are

1. there is no problem, would have to improve the ai to use the turning
2. smaller screen if you can't see on screen how much it effects it most will not care. This is the solution alot of games take
3. Weapon swivel
4. Full turning (or something more than we have now)