Best & Worst Weapons

[PM]

Of the kinetic weapons, how can dual recoilless be level 3 (where it is weak for that level) while dual laser is level 2 (where it is powerful for that level) escapes me.

Dragonfly would be fine if its level was lowered by 1. It is primarily a villain weapon. Ditto for the PM6 Slicer cannon, where it is weaker than a dual particle cannon.

Lancer cannon is on the powerful side, much like Moskva 33 for blast type, but it is not overpowered enough to be level 6. If anything, TeV 9 is weak for a military level 6 weapon. TeV 9 only has 1.5 more DPS over dual particle cannon.

Penitent cannon is a villain weapon that uses a damage type 15 levels higher than normal. If damage tiers upgrade every three levels, then standard dark acid/dark steel weapons would appear at level 19.

[Transcendi]

Penitent cannon is a villain weapon that uses a damage type 15 levels higher than normal. If damage tiers upgrade every three levels, then standard dark acid/dark steel weapons would appear at level 19.

That's really no excuse. Villain weapons should be threatening.
There is more or less no possible way you can die to even a swarm of penitent gunships by the time you encounter them (worst case scenario is encountering four Repentant's while you still are using mostly level 5, for comparison the worst case scenario for the Sung at that point is twelve wind slavers! ).

[PM]

Villain weapons should be threatening.

When I write villain-something, I mean something designed for NPC use. If a mook uses it, it is probably underpowered (e.g., Centauri recoilless) compared to what heroes use. If a boss uses it, it is probably overpowered. Of course, it can be on par with standard gear.

The main threat from Penitents are their shrines and the shockwaves they spawn. Stray too close and you probably die. Penitent cannons are low power, but nothing resists them. In fact, they get a damage bonus against low level defenses due to the level curve. If you expect Pentients to use more damaging weapons of the same level, their damage type would need to be downgraded.

[Transcendi]

Penitent cannons are low power, but nothing resists them. In fact, they get a damage bonus against low level defenses due to the level curve. If you expect Pentients to use more damaging weapons of the same level, their damage type would need to be downgraded.

I did consider this:

Absolution cannon. Still terrible.
6 dark acid dps (comparable to 15 particle dps) on a slow, fragile and short ranged delivery mechanism. The particle cannon far out-damages it until it starts getting completely negated at armor level 9. Can't even be used against the Xenophobes because the projectile will get destroyed by their lancers. Probably needs actual changes to the level damage adjustment curves to fix.

I don't expect same damage in raw numbers or even equivalent damage to target armour all things considered, but to do what's essentially a level 1.5 weapon's (damage to a level 4 armoured target assuming perfect accuracy is about that of dual laser cannons, but the damage delivery mechanism is way way worse) worth of damage?
Doubling the damage to 2d8 would still make it far inferior to a particle beam, but at least you'd actually have to bother to wiggle a bit rather than just laughing it off, to make it actually competitive it'd probably need a bump to 4d6 (and "good" would require a further bump to 4d6+4 or so).

[Warped]

So what are the best endgame weapons in 1.2?

[Transcendi]

So what are the best endgame weapons in 1.2?

Well the plasma cannon has gotten a boost making it competitive and the Gotha's are nasty now but best weapons are the same they've been. Ares Plasma Archcannon for bases and ships that aren't nimble (300 plasma damage in a hit with possible howitzer fire rate boosting is very nice), T7 for swarmers (or the Ares Lightning Turret/IM90 if you can't spare the ammo space), Lamplighter for the Iocrym Command Ship or if you can't spare the weapon slots for the APA (the Lamplighter is a great all around weapon and you can get away with using nothing else if you need to).

[sun1404]

Penitent cannons are low power, but nothing resists them. In fact, they get a damage bonus against low level defenses due to the level curve. If you expect Pentients to use more damaging weapons of the same level, their damage type would need to be downgraded.

I did consider this:

Absolution cannon. Still terrible.
6 dark acid dps (comparable to 15 particle dps) on a slow, fragile and short ranged delivery mechanism. The particle cannon far out-damages it until it starts getting completely negated at armor level 9. Can't even be used against the Xenophobes because the projectile will get destroyed by their lancers. Probably needs actual changes to the level damage adjustment curves to fix.

I don't expect same damage in raw numbers or even equivalent damage to target armour all things considered, but to do what's essentially a level 1.5 weapon's (damage to a level 4 armoured target assuming perfect accuracy is about that of dual laser cannons, but the damage delivery mechanism is way way worse) worth of damage?
Doubling the damage to 2d8 would still make it far inferior to a particle beam, but at least you'd actually have to bother to wiggle a bit rather than just laughing it off, to make it actually competitive it'd probably need a bump to 4d6 (and "good" would require a further bump to 4d6+4 or so).

If I'm not mistaken, in the old versions the Penitent weapons ignore shields, and go straight for armor. That makes them about as deadly as the Ares positron cannons, which have shieldbuster. If it's just one ship, it's not so scary, if it's three, you start to wonder where did your armors ran off to.

Even now that they don't shieldpierce anymore, they're still very dangerous if you're without shield, or when you get your shield collapsed by their shockwave. (very easy)

[pip]

As mentioned above the main problem with the Penitent/Absolution cannon is not it's damage output, but rather everything else.
The weapon itself has a mediocre fire rate.
It's projectile travels quite slowly, is very fragile and has a less than adequate lifetime - meaning that shots have poor range, can be easily blocked, and failing all else can dodged reasonably reliably.
All these things are not really a huge problem on thier own, but together they render the Penitent ships mostly a non-threat.
Seriously. Try a playthrough with a ship mounting one of these. It's horribly frustrating.

On the other end of the scale is the Ferian Plasma Cannon, which is one of the only "straight shooter" weapons I actually like.
A nice combination of speed, power, blocking, and destroying everything.
I don't really mind having to be in someones face to use it properly either.

[sun1404]

I would totally prefer APA to Ferian Plasma Cannon any day.

And the penitents, they're easy to dodge when there's one ship, but when you get three or so with multiple weapon types of varying speed, things gets messy.

[PM]

I would totally prefer APA to Ferian Plasma Cannon any day.

Not for a slow ship with only two weapon slots, like the EI500.

[sun1404]

Well, APA do wonders on the EI500, at least to big foes. And Ferian Plasma Cannon is just not enough for Phobos, especially on slow ships that can't dodge it's cannon.

[PM]

If it is only a direct comparison between the two weapons, APA is better. The problem with APA for the EI500 is it takes two slots, and the EI500 cannot use any more weapons (other than NM900 external missile pod). APA requires aiming, fires very slowly, and requires direct hits to damage targets. In other words, it is difficult to neutralize gunship swarms, which are more common than the lone Phobos. If the EI500 has Ferian cannon, it can equip one more weapon.

[Atarlost]

FPC's a better multi-role weapon. It provides some anti-projectile defense, does good damage, wrecks bases, and fires fast enough to be a decent gunship killer. The APA's a pure howitzer and the slowest firing and therefore least versatile of the lot.

[PM]

Ferian cannon can also mine, though player is probably financially secure enough to not need mining by the time he can acquire the cannon. Not to mention that getting a cannon requires killing Ferians, who are rich in resources.

[Song]

That being said, in some versions (may or may not still be the case) you could optimise the hell out of the APA and come out with pretty much the best firepower in the game.

Personally I don't often use either gun, but when I do I take the APA for the extra range.

I'd have to agree with the penitent cannon. Originally (before I started playing) it apparently bypassed shields, making it insanely dangerous. Since then it's been tweaked and nerfed a few times and is currently still useless.