Make all non-omni Weapons have a 18 degree swivel

[Fossaman]

I have one problem with this whole idea. Just one, but it's a killer, for me.

Karl said:

Please spare us the "I'm so skilled, I can aim anyway" argument. That's total bullshit. It doesn't matter how much "skill" you have, it's physically impossible in the game to aim properly.

Try shooting at a small ship flying in a circle along the edge of the screen. Even if you have pefect aim, maybe one in three shots will actually hit the ship. That's a problem with the game engine and it needs to be fixed one way or the other.

Have you NOT noticed that standard weapons have a fire rate higher than omni weapons? When I can fire twice as many shots (at about the same mean power usage, too) at the ship, and still hit with one of them, it doesn't really matter that I needed to. It takes the same amount of time, the same amount of fuel, and it took some actual effort on my part, instead of just holding down the fire key.

This isn't as workable in a freighter, because of the slow turning. But it's a FREIGHTER, not a gunship. It's meant to go in a straight line along a nice, safe stretch of space, preferably with gunships handy so it doesn't actually have to do any fighting. This is the craft that omni weapons are designed for.

[/rant]

So, I don't think there's a problem.
*whistles and walks off*

[Betelgeuse]

I think a lot of people are just working on theory only. You still have to aim in this system. Try out the one mod and then comment.

[Fossaman]

Following Betel's advice, I went ahead and tried this out. The first thing I notice is that shooting a base from long range and then charging in to take out the ships is now absurdly easy. Because you're coming straight at them, and they're coming straight at you, the swivel just lets you keep flying in a straight line. Not too fun.

The next thing I noticed is a problem exactly as OddBob described with larger ships hiding behind smaller ships; In this case, Borers and Hammerheads. The hammerheads get up close and swarm, while the Borers, being slower, stay further back and destroy your shields with their mining laser. The swivel locks onto the closer hammerheads, while the Borers go ahead and blast you away.

Continuing on, all of the different reflexes I've had to learn with straight-line weapons no longer work. Trying to lead a circling target? No thank you, says the swivel. I want to miss instead. Since this accounts for probably 50% (at least) of combat situations, the swivel is more of a hindrance than a help.

Again, agreeing with OddBob, I frequently 'lost' the direction my ship was pointing; When the shot is swiveled almost the full extent to either side, it looks like you're facing a different direction. This results in the line of fire snapping back to straight, and the target getting away.

Now, most of these problems are due to me being a conscientious objector to omni weapons on anything but a freighter, and my not using a targeting ROM. But I think that this really would ruin my enjoyment of the game. I would have to go through the XML and un-swivel all of the weapons that didn't have it before this point (i.e. Xiphon cannon). The removal of the need to manuever and adjust course when attacking bases makes base cracking BORING. I don't object to having a few more half-omni type weapons, but I want the option NOT to use them as well.

[Betelgeuse]

hmm I didn't think of the circling target. I think that kills it for me
I was really hoping for a compromise between the smooth turning people and the non smooth turning people.

[Blitz]

I think sniping is important. I find the default game *very* unbalanced. Sure the omni weapons are weaker but I still find the omin weapons much more effective.
For eg. somebody said its easy die early on if you get ambushed by too many Zulus. With the freighter, I simply fly at top speed, find the blind spots and then blow them up.
Once I get an omni particle cannon. destroying bases becomes ridiculously easy. I simply get the base to a range of about 100, then target it, then fly to range 120 (max for the particle cannon) and then start shooting. Once the ships start coming, I simply fly away at max speed, switch targets, and keep shooting. A couple will keep after me and the rest will fly back. I destroy them and repeat the process. With the larger bases, I prefer to take out the enemy ships first and then move on to the base.
When I play, whether with the wolfen or the EI500, I don't even look at the non-omni weapons. Thats why I got this Idea in the first place. The Omni weapons are too strong. Either make them weaker or make non-omnis more effective.
Now Fossman writes

Now, most of these problems are due to me being a conscientious objector to omni weapons on anything but a freighter, and my not using a targeting ROM. But I think that this really would ruin my enjoyment of the game.

But they are part of the game. If you want a challenge, that's different altogether. The fact is there is an absurdly easy way to do the same thing.

Well OK, there are other problems but I can't think of much else to make the game more fun right now except for self-imposed restrictions. I will agree, the mod does make the game a tad easier even if it eliminates blind spots for the enemy. But I still think the game is more funthis way. Atleast it eliminates the frustration of not being use non-omni weapons because of game limitations.

[FAD]

Problem? Solution: Ask George to make a weapon upgrade option that would apply swivel tech to your installed weapon(s)...Perhaps have the Shipyards be capable of doing the UG's and naturally it should come with a price. That would solve everyones problems in that you would still be able to choose straight shooters or omni or have an option to upgrade your weapon to swivel if you so desire.

[Blitz]

Problem? Solution: Ask George to make a weapon upgrade option that would apply swivel tech to your installed weapon(s)...Perhaps have the Shipyards be capable of doing the UG's and naturally it should come with a price. That would solve everyones problems in that you would still be able to choose straight shooters or omni or have an option to upgrade your weapon to swivel if you so desire.

Hmm.. Good idea but again that'll have to wait till the next version. Unless somebody creates a mod. That'll take a while. But put the upgrade option at the tinkers though cause it says "Custom Work" and this would be customizing the weapon.

[FAD]

Tinkers would be fine, but I mentioned the shipyards simply for the fact that you can access one in the first system, Eridani--allowing the player who wants swivel to be able to get the UG ASAP.
And not to undermine your statement about Tinkers having custom work, but shipyards also have that capability...Think ship refit.

[Burzmali]

I think sniping is important. I find the default game *very* unbalanced. Sure the omni weapons are weaker but I still find the omin weapons much more effective.

Sniping a station might be the most effective way to destroy it, but it's just not cricket. How would you like it if the enem ships in the "Defend a Station" mission hing back and fired from the edge of their weapon's range?

[Blitz]

I think sniping is important. I find the default game *very* unbalanced. Sure the omni weapons are weaker but I still find the omin weapons much more effective.

Sniping a station might be the most effective way to destroy it, but it's just not cricket. How would you like it if the enem ships in the "Defend a Station" mission hing back and fired from the edge of their weapon's range?

I never meant it that way. I DO NOT want the enemy ships to snipe. The enemy ships are stupid and if they weren't stupid, this game would become impossible. The point I was trying to make was, sniping made omni weapons extremely effective while non-omni weapons had no reliable way to do something similar. Sure, you could carefully align the ship with the station at 90 degrees from a safe distance, then fly in the opposite direction till you reach your weapons max range but that would become tedious. I am ofcourse referring to the player's weapons. This makes the game " *very* unbalanced" for me.

Anyway I played a little bit more with my mod. The protect the station mission does get harder. I barely managed to win even though I had Ronins from Korolov's shipping right next to the agricultural station to help me.

[Betelgeuse]

the only reason I supported this idea in the first place is because it could improve the enemy ships. Having it be an upgrade at a shipyard or tinkers would kill that. The enemy needs help with this you can realize that you are missing them they can't.

[Burzmali]

That comes down to the AI's flight pattern. The AI needs to learn that in order to hit a target that it is chasing, it needs to chase a point ahead of the player, not on him. In dogfighting (modern day) you have three choices when chasing an opponent into a turn, you can fly on target, leading or lagging. The AI always flies on target, if some chose to lead or lag the player, they would end up squeezing the player between their attacks and, hopefully, eliminate the blindspot problem.

[Blitz]

the only reason I supported this idea in the first place is because it could improve the enemy ships. Having it be an upgrade at a shipyard or tinkers would kill that. The enemy needs help with this you can realize that you are missing them they can't.

All right, I'll make mod overriding all enemy ships and see what its like. But I get the feeling it'll make the game too tough.

[Fossaman]

But they are part of the game. If you want a challenge, that's different altogether. The fact is there is an absurdly easy way to do the same thing.

So...you're saying that because I find using omni weapons boring, and, in some circumstances, less effective, that makes me some whacko gaming-masochist?

Omni weapons are part of the game. They're the part of the game that makes the freighter useable. When I get a weapon as awesome as the IM90, I'll stick it on whatever. But I can take out a swarm of ships faster with my ineffective straightfire weapons than I can with omni weapons that I may or may not be able to find in time to deal with the grade of enemies I'm facing.

Anyway, not going to get further into that. We had enough omni vs. straight-fire flame wars on the UTF to last for a good long while.

Keep in mind, Blitz, that George cited Nethack as an inspiration for this game. You know, Nethack, as in 'the game where you have to die at least a hundred times before you have any CHANCE of winning.' I don't think you can call transcendence too hard by any means, at this point. It's plenty easy, for what aims to be a roguelike.