A couple of questions regarding equipment

[snafu]

1: What's the (practical) difference between ICX & LongReach? Range? RoF? Target acquisition? (power use is not an issue at this stage) Would there be a benefit in installing both? The Wiki has never made this clear to my satisfaction..

2: Is it worth bothering the new Tinkers with damaged goods (sale or craft) for cash, or should I not bother? The enhancements are nice but the lack of cash in early game still grates (yes I know it's a game mechanic - allow me to grouse!)

FWIW I've been playing on and off since around 0.96 or so & am really impressed with the way the game's advanced, but I'm shy & these things still bother me..

I've a table of the new Tiinker transforms if anyone is interested enough to put it on the wiki..

[AssumedPseudonym]

 1: The Longreach does more damage than the ICX, which may be a concern for beefier projectiles needing shot down. Putting on both a Longreach and an ICX does have its advantages, but also its share of disadvantages. Be extremely careful if you ever want to dock at a Black Market station again…
 2: Until you get at least a Nova-100 and decent gear, I would say it’s definitely worth it to collect and offload damaged goods at them. It can add up faster than you might expect. It generally stops being worth it sometime between Rigel Aurelius and St. Kat’s, though. Prices just get too steep at that point, unless you almost have enough for that shiny new set of armor or what have you.

[JohnBWatson]

What's the (practical) difference between ICX & LongReach? Range? RoF? Target acquisition? (power use is not an issue at this stage) Would there be a benefit in installing both? The Wiki has never made this clear to my satisfaction..

Raw damage and projectile speed are the major differences. The LongReach is effectively an upgraded ICX. Both are point defense weapons, which are a bit underpowered at the moment due to a targeting glitch, but are nonetheless useful for fending off guided missiles like those of the final boss. Ultimately, once you get to the endgame, the ICS is the only enemy they'll be useful against, so installing both isn't recommended. The Antarctica mission(either path) also becomes easier with a Longreach, but anything with decent range can destroy it and an IFC or the shatter power can solidly defend it.

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2: Is it worth bothering the new Tinkers with damaged goods (sale or craft) for cash, or should I not bother? The enhancements are nice but the lack of cash in early game still grates (yes I know it's a game mechanic - allow me to grouse!)

Their products, in my opinion, are a bit overpriced and aren't that much better than more common items. Selling them damaged expensive items(reactors and high level weaponry) nets you some money, so if you need credits it's a decent option. Be advised that as of recent updates you can sell damaged armor and shields to armor dealers and damaged weapons to weapon dealers.

[Song]

2: Is it worth bothering the new Tinkers with damaged goods (sale or craft) for cash, or should I not bother? The enhancements are nice but the lack of cash in early game still grates (yes I know it's a game mechanic - allow me to grouse!)

Their products, in my opinion, are a bit overpriced and aren't that much better than more common items. Selling them damaged expensive items(reactors and high level weaponry) nets you some money, so if you need credits it's a decent option. Be advised that as of recent updates you can sell damaged armor and shields to armor dealers and damaged weapons to weapon dealers.

This is generally true: Unless you can't loot it, don't craft it at the tinkers. The exceptions are the XM900 missile (if you have the NAMI launcher and can hide/carry them without customs finding them), and the dual Mark-III howitzer....which is very expensive to build, but if you get it as soon as you can and boost it with enhancers (high-speed loader and either an optimizer ROM (if you aren't fantastic at aiming and want more shells fired) or 15 hexagene boosters (if you want raw damage. This is harder to get because of the high number of items, but it's the best in terms of raw effectiveness)) and a drive to deal with the recoil, it's the single best non-military weapon in the game, and only becomes ineffective once xenophobes start becoming common. On anything without massive blast resistance (or immunity) it does stupid amounts of damage very quickly. It's also hilarious if you can pull off trick shots with it. In both cases, you should be crafting for personal use, not for selling (the dual Mark III has the NotForSale tag, which in the current version makes it almost valueless to shops).

Oh, and selling damaged stuff to armor/weapons dealers has always been possible. Tinkers are a useful sink for that stuff though.


In terms of ICX vs Longreach: ICX has lower damage and a faster shot (and a glitched hit effect, IIRC). Longreach is a kinetic weapon. Be advised that point defense systems have a crippling bug at present and will frequently go insane. This is bad news around friendly ships and stations. Longreach was an attempt to make up for this bug (years ago, before the problem was identified) and make shooting down the iocrym's one-hit-kill projectiles possible in the endgame. It didn't really work, mostly because adding extra damage made the thing seriously evil to be around. Even today, the 310A Aegis auton will usually do more damage to the enemy (and surrounding ships/stations/autons/the player) with its buggy point-defense than the stock gun it comes with.

[PM]

Longreach is most useful in the final system, both at stopping pteravores and quantum disintegrator shots. ICX lacks the stopping power to neutralize them reliably.

[pixelfck]

2: Is it worth bothering the new Tinkers with damaged goods (sale or craft) for cash, or should I not bother? The enhancements are nice but the lack of cash in early game still grates (yes I know it's a game mechanic - allow me to grouse!)

The tinker custom works can be worth it. Because you can use damaged items in to fulfil the recipe's requirements, the custom works items can be good value. Yet, if you have to buy undamaged items and devices to complete the recipe's list, it usually works out as less than a bargain.

~Pixelfck

[JohnBWatson]

Really? I know that used to be true, but the current prices seem a bit over the top, especially with the high frequency of good armor and weapon loot.

[snafu]

Hmm.. just tested a basic laser crafting. 4x turbolaser (damaged) + 2.3KCr = a dual turbolaser I can sell for.. 2.6KCr.. I'd be better off flogging the damaged weps directly (

However the omni X-ray is well worth the punt for use

ICX, being an energy device, can be repaired by Longhzu, correct? I've no PD in my freighter atm & those missiles are starting to hurt.. (pre-Charon)

[JohnBWatson]

Hmm.. just tested a basic laser crafting. 4x turbolaser (damaged) + 2.3KCr = a dual turbolaser I can sell for.. 2.6KCr.. I'd be better off flogging the damaged weps directly (

However the omni X-ray is well worth the punt for use

ICX, being an energy device, can be repaired by Longhzu, correct? I've no PD in my freighter atm & those missiles are starting to hurt.. (pre-Charon)

Dunno, I think it's just shields and energy weapons, but using one on a device that can't take it doesn't use it up IIRC, so it's worth a shot.

I, personally, just buy a dual flenser and use it as an impromptu point defense. Use an optimizer ROM on it and it'll last you through the Ungoverned Territories.

[pixelfck]

Hmm.. just tested a basic laser crafting. 4x turbolaser (damaged) + 2.3KCr = a dual turbolaser I can sell for.. 2.6KCr.. I'd be better off flogging the damaged weps directly (

However the omni X-ray is well worth the punt for use

ICX, being an energy device, can be repaired by Longhzu, correct? I've no PD in my freighter atm & those missiles are starting to hurt.. (pre-Charon)

I agree that the margin is too small (or negative as in this case). It would be nice if the crafted item would be guaranteed to at least break-even and typically be a ¿+15%? increase in value.

Edit:
Then again, maybe there is no need for the tinker products to be profitable at all. Yet, I feel that right now, most items are not worth all the extra credits required.

~Pixelfck

[Watch TV, Do Nothing]

Since tinkers were redone it's seemed pretty clear to me that their crafting is an optional mechanism for the player getting uncommon enhancements and a few otherwise unavailable items, and are not meant to be a way to make $$$. There are plenty of other ways to make money in Transcendence. I don't see why Tinkers would provide their services for free or at cost to themselves.

[JohnBWatson]

Since tinkers were redone it's seemed pretty clear to me that their crafting is an optional mechanism for the player getting uncommon enhancements and a few otherwise unavailable items, and are not meant to be a way to make $$$. There are plenty of other ways to make money in Transcendence. I don't see why Tinkers would provide their services for free or at cost to themselves.

I don't think it should be profitable, but it should be practical. At present, the costs are quite prohibitive in the areas they spawn, and the products aren't that great. Making the costs a flat 25% of total component cost would probably be more balanced.

[Watch TV, Do Nothing]

Most of the tinker items are pretty underwhelming by the time they're obtainable.

[pixelfck]

Most of the tinker items are pretty underwhelming by the time they're obtainable.

^This.

The tinker items are above average for their level... But, by the time you can finally craft them, it is usually a better deal to just go for a higher level item instead. By buying a higher level item you not only get more bang for your buck, you pretty much get you more bang overall.

~Pixelfck

[Song]

Most of the tinker items are pretty underwhelming by the time they're obtainable.

^This.

The tinker items are above average for their level... But, by the time you can finally craft them, it is usually a better deal to just go for a higher level item instead. By buying a higher level item you not only get more bang for your buck, you pretty much get you more bang overall.

~Pixelfck

Except the dual Mark-III, but that does take a very good memory of where to find the parts, and the RNG sometimes makes it impossible to get until it is, indeed, obsolescent.