Dockscreen Backgrounds

[dvlenk6]

The images are 600x400; but, how large is the area on the right hand side where the text shows up on the dockscreens?
In pixels.
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I'm making a generic armor dealer dockscreen.
This look enough like a titanium barricade?

[Yugi]

Yeah, that looks great

Maybe a little too rusty for new armor?

Also seems a little too much curved (though it does look exactly like the one in the game - I always thought that looked a bit too curved, too)

[dvlenk6]

You are right about the rust. It is a forced habit. Easy enough to change that.
I'm so used to having "ALL METAL HAS RUST" beaten into me that I just put it their automatically.
I've been hanging around the artsy crowd too long. I need to get back to making realistic renders; instead of catering to fake 'artistic realism'.

[Yugi]

I just hope you don't make it dayglow orange like George did - I always thought that was a silly colour for armor/barricades.

I'm so used to having "ALL METAL HAS RUST" beaten into me that I just put it their automatically.
I've been hanging around the artsy crowd too long. I need to get back to making realistic renders; instead of catering to fake 'artistic realism'.

Sounds very childish - it's much like at school, where if you don't do the same as everyone else then you get branded as being stupid, or in your case, rubbish, which you're obviously not.

[evilbob]

go on, bombard them with proper stuff and make their heads asplode.

[Burzmali]

"ALL METAL HAS RUST"

For metals that rust and aren't protected with a coat of paint or petroleum jelly (love that Delorean), yes, they are rusted, that isn't artsy, that's normal. Even more importantly, all alloys that anyone would likely use for anything are either heat treated or annealed, both which leave a scale that looks alot like rust. In space, things are different (no oxygen to oxidize) but still, most things are painted or otherwise coated to enhance the properties of the material they cover.

edit: For reference, when I saw the image above, I didn't see rust, I saw a titanium alloy that had tarnished during assembly, and a copper alloy (brass or bronze) that had been annealed and not has the scale removed before assembly.

[dvlenk6]

...Even more importantly, all alloys that anyone would likely use for anything are either heat treated or annealed, both which leave a scale that looks alot like rust...

Only when done in an oxygenated (carbon and nitrogen cause it too; in short, Air.) environment. I worked in steel foundry (making tools). We used an endothermic gas environment during the tempering process.
I don't think it would be too much of a stretch that a 25th century space metal manufacturer might understand this procedure as well, do you?

No. All metals are not rusted/tarnished. Neglected metals are rusted.
I only have to look around my own home and neighborhood to see that. There is 20 year old copper roof down the street, shiny as the day it was first put on the building. Why? because it is maintained. Because the people that own the building keep it that way. Because they don't care to let it dilapidate. I feel the same way myself, and am glad to have neighbors like that.

On the other hand, the preferred artistic style right now is called 'Steam Punk', sometimes it is called 'Dystopic' or 'Grunge'. Whatever it is called, it highlights and focuses entirely on delapidation, neglect, etc. Everything is battered, grungy, heavily rusted, etc. Everything is in an advanced state of extreme delapidation. Mountains of trash blowing around the streets.
The more broken down and battered, the better the 'artistic vision' of the artist. It used to be popular only for futuristic scenes. Now it used for everything. There are several CG applications specifically designed to facilitate 'grunging' models and textures.

Just the simple fact that a actual photographic texture doesn't look 'real enough' for a CG render should be enough proof that what I'm saying is correct. It must artistically 'grunged' to be considered 'realistic'.
I once posted photographs of my kitchen furniture. I didn't say if they were photographs or renders, just posted the pictures. There were lots comments pointing out that "Real wood doesn't look that clean"... "Real furniture has dents and dings in it"... etc. I got a good kick out of that excercise and it put a lot of things into proper perspective for me.

I would not be able to enjoy life at all if I saw everything in that light. Maybe it is because I am involved in creating new things; but I do not see decay and rot everywhere I go. I do see it, when it is there, but I also see a lot of new and well maintained things too.

Now, I think I'll wander out to my shiny stainless steel kitchen and grab some coffee. See if the new floor tiles have fallen to pieces yet.

[Yugi]

Maybe you could campaign for real, real 3D art?

[dvlenk6]

I would just like to be able to make what I want to make without it being constantly driven into me that I suck at it.

I get tired of being told that by rookies that don't what they are talking about. It gets irritating after a while. I don't post many pictures anymore because of it.

I'm probably going to stop making ships and stations too. It isn't worth the hassle. I was only doing it because it was fun for me. It isn't fun anymore.
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So, just let this thread die. There won't be any armor dealer dockscreen.

[evilbob]

awwww! Come on dvlenk6, you're brilliant at it! Sure, some people are total ****** sometimes, but that's their fault, not yours.

If your models sucked, do you think I'd ask you to make them?

[OddBob]

I feel you on the grunge (although I've never heard that called steampunk - actually working on some steampunk ships for Transcendence now, and they're very shiny), I think it's because everything has variations and differences: most hard surfaces ARE worn (actually varyated, it's not necessarily from wear and tear), it's just very VERY subtle in the form of unevenness in color or thickness that you don't consciously notice - but you notice when it's gone. You notice in a real object that it's gone and say "oh, that's clean". However, real objects act real. Everything is lit perfect (unlike 3d programs which don't account for ambient light/reflections correctly), everything is colored prefect. In a 3D program, your mind combines "No variation" and "bad light/color" to produce the verdict of "false". Now add back in variation, and you only have one problem, which is easier for your brain to lie to you about. What's the easiest way to do this? Grunge it up. It's HARD to make a realistic, good-looking metal texture that is also clean. I've been trying for months. It's not hard to make a rusty, paint peeling, scratched up metal plate.

EDIT: Sorry to hear that you don't want to continue. I enjoy your work (and I know that many if not all of us here do as well) and if it's fun for you, you can't let anyone take that away if you don't want to.

[Burzmali]

Please don't take my comments as a condemnation of your work. I love your meshes, especially the futuristic ones. OddBob hits the nail on the head when it comes to more realistic images.

[george moromisato]

dvlenk6, please don't stop making your images--I don't comment on them very much, but I eagerly check your site for new images and am delighted whenever you post one here.

I think I understand how you feel. You feel that you are being criticized by critics who can't do what you do. It's easy to criticize--it's much harder to actually create the images that you are creating. If they think they know so much, why don't they just go off and create their own images and leave you alone?

I confess that sometimes I feel the same way.

But I think that there is another way to look at it. Alan Kay once said that the Macintosh was the first computer worth criticizing. What he meant was that only creations that rise to a certain level merit criticism.

When I see a kid's drawing or a newbie rendering of a Star Destroyer, I don't bother criticizing. There is nothing there that merits my time.

But when I see a skillfull and creative piece like most of your work, I want it to be as close to perfect as possible. I see the potential in the piece and I want it to be better. The piece evokes something in me and suddenly I feel invested in it. I want to spend my time to make it better.

The best creations come from a collaboration between the artist and the critics. Obviously, without artists, there would be no creations. But without critics, art would be solipsistic and irrelevant--a creation that speaks only to the creator and leaves all others untouched.

I am not oblivious to the irony that this post itself is meta-criticism: criticism about how to deal with criticism. But I hope you view it as encouragement from someone who has been in your position many times before and who has felt what you feel many times before.

Every piece of criticism is like a gift. The giver felt that you were worthy of their effort--revel in that. Some of the gifts will be helpful--put them to use. Others will be useless and unwelcome--but don't worry about those. Just thank the giver, put the gift out of sight in the back of a closet somewhere and keep only the knowledge that even critics (especially critics!) are not perfect.

[evilbob]

also, since when was the last time critics liked a film everyone else liked?

[dvlenk6]

@Burzmali:
Let's see... Substandard meshes, poor textures, worse lighting, inferior render engine.
Did I miss anything?
Oh, wait, I almost forgot. The subject and style are all wrong too.
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dvlenk6, please don't stop making your images...

I can't really stop working in 3d right now, because a signifigant part of my income comes from it. I haven't decided yet whether to continue with it as a hobby or not.

I think I understand how you feel. You feel that you are being criticized by critics who can't do what you do...

I don't mind critique, i like it, I often specifically ask for it. I hate critics, and they are everywhere. I get tired of the hounding. Nothing is ever good enough; if it is, then it isn't in the 'proper' format for a 'true' application. Everything else failing, then poly count is too high. It is a broken record.
Thanks for your input.
I can tell you put a lot of thought into that post. Thanks again.
I'll think about it.

O.k. here is some pictures of EvilBob's new mech ship; but not in the format for Transcendence ship (I'll let him be the one to first show those if he wants to). I was working on it for a little while before this thread started.
The Model, w/ just Occlusion base and a couple contour shaders:


Then rendered w/ Mental Ray (I rigged the model for animation).


It is very low poly. I was challenged to provide a copy of the .obj file for public scrutiny to prove that I wasn't lying about the poly count. I refused that, of course. Now it is assumed that 'He obviously lied...' and the model is 'probably nothing but worthless trash...'
Just another example of the type of crap I encounter all the time. It just turns something that is enjoyable into an aggrevation; which I feel is the critic's main goal.