Do you want to dock?
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Betelgeuse
- Fleet Officer
- Posts: 1920
- Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:31 am
CW stations don't have much of anything for loot. Remember corp and CW are separate sovereigns. If you side with the black market you basically have denied yourself equipping anything or getting new reactors until potentially far after St. K.
Crying is not a proper retort!
Sorry.
I am saying that the Police rewards should be made less than the BM rewards to balance said lesser penalties for the BM and greater ones for the Police.
The reactors I just live with, VIII weapons can wait until the Rassermiser (can't spell that) factories. The invincible will do until the Plasma from the CSCs. Other VIII-X equipment can wait for the CSCs and Ringers.
What loot from CW stations? Nothing you want to equip...
I am saying that the Police rewards should be made less than the BM rewards to balance said lesser penalties for the BM and greater ones for the Police.
The reactors I just live with, VIII weapons can wait until the Rassermiser (can't spell that) factories. The invincible will do until the Plasma from the CSCs. Other VIII-X equipment can wait for the CSCs and Ringers.
What loot from CW stations? Nothing you want to equip...
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dvlenk6
- Militia Captain
- Posts: 519
- Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:56 am
- Location: Sanctuary and beyond
- Contact:
Not being able to dock with any CW stations is just about the worst thing that could ever happen to you, short of dying outright.
There wouldn't be anything from the CSCs either. The fleet is &svCommonwealth also.
If you didn't find BM shipyards, you wouldn't get a reactor upgrade until you meet ringers.
There wouldn't be anything from the CSCs either. The fleet is &svCommonwealth also.
If you didn't find BM shipyards, you wouldn't get a reactor upgrade until you meet ringers.
Right. So here is the deal:
Angering the BM is a small penalty.
Angering the police is a large penalty (because it also angers the CW)
Problem: If you join the BM, you can destroy the Police and suffer the penalty, and if you join the police, you can destroy the BM and suffer the penalty. However, the penalties are not equal (Police penalty is worse), and, assuming the benefits are the same, the police is the better choice.
Note here that destroying the other party is an option, not necessary. The player can join one and merely be denied the benefits of the other (denied police, not CW or military), not necessarily suffer the penalties.
So, what do we do to even these out, so that either choice is a viable option? Decrease the police because it is too good? No: Solve the problem directly by increasing the BM penalty; then the penalties are equal - you don't have to compensate by making the police faction have bad rewards, which actually doesn't fix it because:
Joining the police denies you from the BM equipment. Joining the Black market doesn't deny you the CW. So the police need MORE rewards because you won't have black market access. The police rewards/armory need to be effectively equal to the BM rewards/armory.
One more consideration: Assume now that the BM and the police are equal. You can join either one - and destroy it's counterpart if you so choose - and each balances out. But what about the military? If you join the BM and destroy the police (and by extension the CW) you have angered the military, and you have lost it's benefits as well (you may now go back through this post and retroactively change "police" to "police and military"). The solution could be to add some extra benefits (double the benefits actually, why next paragraph) to the BM side (yes, this is different than weakening the police rewards).
This is the root problem: there are three factions, and two of them are allied, meaning the attitude of one matches the other, and you can join both. This means that either the black market needs to be twice as strong as either the military or the police by themselves, OR there needs to be another faction on the black market side - a counterpart to the military. This could of course be the Ares, but that is quite an undertaking. I think perhaps it would actually be fine if the BM was twice as powerful.
Angering the BM is a small penalty.
Angering the police is a large penalty (because it also angers the CW)
Problem: If you join the BM, you can destroy the Police and suffer the penalty, and if you join the police, you can destroy the BM and suffer the penalty. However, the penalties are not equal (Police penalty is worse), and, assuming the benefits are the same, the police is the better choice.
Note here that destroying the other party is an option, not necessary. The player can join one and merely be denied the benefits of the other (denied police, not CW or military), not necessarily suffer the penalties.
So, what do we do to even these out, so that either choice is a viable option? Decrease the police because it is too good? No: Solve the problem directly by increasing the BM penalty; then the penalties are equal - you don't have to compensate by making the police faction have bad rewards, which actually doesn't fix it because:
Joining the police denies you from the BM equipment. Joining the Black market doesn't deny you the CW. So the police need MORE rewards because you won't have black market access. The police rewards/armory need to be effectively equal to the BM rewards/armory.
One more consideration: Assume now that the BM and the police are equal. You can join either one - and destroy it's counterpart if you so choose - and each balances out. But what about the military? If you join the BM and destroy the police (and by extension the CW) you have angered the military, and you have lost it's benefits as well (you may now go back through this post and retroactively change "police" to "police and military"). The solution could be to add some extra benefits (double the benefits actually, why next paragraph) to the BM side (yes, this is different than weakening the police rewards).
This is the root problem: there are three factions, and two of them are allied, meaning the attitude of one matches the other, and you can join both. This means that either the black market needs to be twice as strong as either the military or the police by themselves, OR there needs to be another faction on the black market side - a counterpart to the military. This could of course be the Ares, but that is quite an undertaking. I think perhaps it would actually be fine if the BM was twice as powerful.
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dvlenk6
- Militia Captain
- Posts: 519
- Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:56 am
- Location: Sanctuary and beyond
- Contact:
Idea1:
You can join either and not have to actually destroy the other. To reach the higher ranks (I'll leave 'higher' open to discussion), you would have to destroy (and anger) the other faction; sort of throw in the hat, so to speak.
It's ok if the benefits aren't the same. That's pretty common in RPG play. All character classes ARE NOT equal. It's the challenge, and the role-playing, that is fun. As long as it isn't impossible to finish the game, it doesn't matter if one path is harder than the other.
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Idea2:
To help solve the installation of devices (that is the biggest inequality by far, IMO), make it so that Adventurer Outfitters can install devices other than weapons. Where do they get all those military items? From the BM, of course. This should only be available if you are of a certain level of notoriety (rank) in the BM faction:
"Psst. We have a 'chop shop' around the back of the station where we can install that new Plasma Shield for you.
"
That's very easy to mod also.
You can join either and not have to actually destroy the other. To reach the higher ranks (I'll leave 'higher' open to discussion), you would have to destroy (and anger) the other faction; sort of throw in the hat, so to speak.
It's ok if the benefits aren't the same. That's pretty common in RPG play. All character classes ARE NOT equal. It's the challenge, and the role-playing, that is fun. As long as it isn't impossible to finish the game, it doesn't matter if one path is harder than the other.
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Idea2:
To help solve the installation of devices (that is the biggest inequality by far, IMO), make it so that Adventurer Outfitters can install devices other than weapons. Where do they get all those military items? From the BM, of course. This should only be available if you are of a certain level of notoriety (rank) in the BM faction:
"Psst. We have a 'chop shop' around the back of the station where we can install that new Plasma Shield for you.
"That's very easy to mod also.
The police won't have the great loot the BM has, but the BM might be able to cover up the fact that is was you if done on a mission. And why else would you destroy the Police? Level V equipment (which is the best I can see the player getting from the police) isn't that great. Also destroying Police ships wouldn't be a huge problem (I don't think you'll be jailed for it and the fuel rods and riot guns would be nice rewards), at least if you are with the BM.
I would say the police needs less rewards because lots of other rewards will come in the form of destroyed BM station's loot since you can't use them (or at least more than one for undercover/special missions) anyways.
The CSC's provide reactor upgrades. A 150 NX is usually found in a CW settlement or Adventure Outfitters (perhaps even a 250). Otherwise I live with it.
The BM doesn't need to be twice as powerful because you won't incur the CW's wrath if you go all the way with the BM whereas you will incur the BM's wrath if you go all the way with the police. The idea is that the BM doesn't grant any penalties (if you consider it is the regular route), while the Police might be able to make the penalties you incur worth your while (via small rewards and BMS loot). Also you would probably get undercover agent missions as either side which would allow you some comforts of the other for a small while, and still be working exclusively for the one. Everything can be balanced by making missions and rewards here.
Remember that the BM is not trying to engage the CW face to face but is rather doing business behind the CW's back. It doesn't need to be as powerful as the CW. This isn't an all-out war but a war where the BM is trying to stay hidden and do business while the CW is trying (unsuccessfully) to root them out.
I find the Molotoks to be a bonus for blowing up the BM. Free fuel on the go.
I would say the police needs less rewards because lots of other rewards will come in the form of destroyed BM station's loot since you can't use them (or at least more than one for undercover/special missions) anyways.
The CSC's provide reactor upgrades. A 150 NX is usually found in a CW settlement or Adventure Outfitters (perhaps even a 250). Otherwise I live with it.
The BM doesn't need to be twice as powerful because you won't incur the CW's wrath if you go all the way with the BM whereas you will incur the BM's wrath if you go all the way with the police. The idea is that the BM doesn't grant any penalties (if you consider it is the regular route), while the Police might be able to make the penalties you incur worth your while (via small rewards and BMS loot). Also you would probably get undercover agent missions as either side which would allow you some comforts of the other for a small while, and still be working exclusively for the one. Everything can be balanced by making missions and rewards here.
Remember that the BM is not trying to engage the CW face to face but is rather doing business behind the CW's back. It doesn't need to be as powerful as the CW. This isn't an all-out war but a war where the BM is trying to stay hidden and do business while the CW is trying (unsuccessfully) to root them out.
I find the Molotoks to be a bonus for blowing up the BM. Free fuel on the go.