Of Missiles and Launchers
Ok but you don't have to use a launcher, it could be a weapon.
What i also want to get across is because of the ammo that comes with each launcher each one adds about 4 items to the pool. The RNG finds it's objects here and will generate a different item more often as the pool gets larger. Making it harder to find what you want, you'll end up selling it more often.
What i also want to get across is because of the ammo that comes with each launcher each one adds about 4 items to the pool. The RNG finds it's objects here and will generate a different item more often as the pool gets larger. Making it harder to find what you want, you'll end up selling it more often.
In a way, its often the choices you *dont* have that make the game interesting...OddBob wrote:More choices = better. I believe this applies with weapons to no limit. Having a slim selection of weapons leads to everyone using the same ones every game
ie when theres some random variation that means you have to go outside the same-old tactics and choices
Although more is generally better with primary weapons, with launchers, more is NOT better.
More than 3 launchers competing means you will not be able to scrape up enough ammo to use a launcher effectively.
Too many missile options is also bad because you won't have enough uniformity in your missiles to use them effectively (this is not a problem as far as the game's current state goes) because you can't collect just one or two types of missiles and still have decent numbers of them. Firstly, you may end up having to toggle through several missiles after running out of one type to make sure you are or aren't using a special or tracking type. Seccondly, the damage type that you are using may switc and thirdly, I find it just much more convienent to work with two -- and definitely no more than three -- types of missiles.
As to weapon choices though, with a *possible* exception to the Iocrym, I agree with Oddbob and Karpy.
More than 3 launchers competing means you will not be able to scrape up enough ammo to use a launcher effectively.
Too many missile options is also bad because you won't have enough uniformity in your missiles to use them effectively (this is not a problem as far as the game's current state goes) because you can't collect just one or two types of missiles and still have decent numbers of them. Firstly, you may end up having to toggle through several missiles after running out of one type to make sure you are or aren't using a special or tracking type. Seccondly, the damage type that you are using may switc and thirdly, I find it just much more convienent to work with two -- and definitely no more than three -- types of missiles.
As to weapon choices though, with a *possible* exception to the Iocrym, I agree with Oddbob and Karpy.
I think that I still believe more is better even with launchers.
The real problem is ammo - you can't find enough of it. But you can't find enough NOW and we have maybe ten launchers. It's because you can't buy it anywhere which is ridiculous - the more ammo companies sell the more profit they have* so there's no reason they wouldn't actively try to get it to you.
You can of course fix the ammo problem by just cutting down on the number of launchers but this is an indirect solution - fix the real problem (lack of ammo for sale) by reducing the need for ammo? No! Fix it by adding more ammo.
Now things like Rasiermessier weapons you won't run low on ammo so long as there's a store nearby because each store carries lots of ammo.
But the Makayev store has maybe a few hundred Strelkas. That's maybe twenty seconds of firing time and you'll forever be short a great weapon.
The secondary problem is that even if every store has the ammo, once there are enough different stores you suffer the same problem - can't find a rassiermessier for all the makayevs and laser armadas. This can be partially relived however by only having a few brands - much better in my opinion than only a few launchers.
I belive that at any dealer you should be able to buy ammo like you buy fuel at dockyards. There's a "replenish ammunition" button and it asks you how many of the ammo for the current weapon you have selectedyou want (provided it is a weapon made by that company, or if the station supports that ammo type - Makayev might sell you Nandao bolts at a marku).
Also, I think that there could be a couple other options. You could purchase "weapon insurance" from a corp and then, upon your request they would send a modified corp cruiser (preferably with big advertisments hanging off it) that you could dock with and buy ammo from. Alternatively, that cruiser could occasionally pop in systems like an ice cream truck and you'd just chase it down and buy what you want - a traveling store.
*Gives me an idea for "the Gillette gun"
A corp supplies you with a powerful weapon - for free. However, ammo is a tad expensive.
The real problem is ammo - you can't find enough of it. But you can't find enough NOW and we have maybe ten launchers. It's because you can't buy it anywhere which is ridiculous - the more ammo companies sell the more profit they have* so there's no reason they wouldn't actively try to get it to you.
You can of course fix the ammo problem by just cutting down on the number of launchers but this is an indirect solution - fix the real problem (lack of ammo for sale) by reducing the need for ammo? No! Fix it by adding more ammo.
Now things like Rasiermessier weapons you won't run low on ammo so long as there's a store nearby because each store carries lots of ammo.
But the Makayev store has maybe a few hundred Strelkas. That's maybe twenty seconds of firing time and you'll forever be short a great weapon.
The secondary problem is that even if every store has the ammo, once there are enough different stores you suffer the same problem - can't find a rassiermessier for all the makayevs and laser armadas. This can be partially relived however by only having a few brands - much better in my opinion than only a few launchers.
I belive that at any dealer you should be able to buy ammo like you buy fuel at dockyards. There's a "replenish ammunition" button and it asks you how many of the ammo for the current weapon you have selectedyou want (provided it is a weapon made by that company, or if the station supports that ammo type - Makayev might sell you Nandao bolts at a marku).
Also, I think that there could be a couple other options. You could purchase "weapon insurance" from a corp and then, upon your request they would send a modified corp cruiser (preferably with big advertisments hanging off it) that you could dock with and buy ammo from. Alternatively, that cruiser could occasionally pop in systems like an ice cream truck and you'd just chase it down and buy what you want - a traveling store.
*Gives me an idea for "the Gillette gun"
A corp supplies you with a powerful weapon - for free. However, ammo is a tad expensive.-
Betelgeuse
- Fleet Officer
- Posts: 1920
- Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:31 am
hmm just had an idea make a mod that has a launcher that every time it fires it drains your credits. It would be just like if ammo was plentiful.
Crying is not a proper retort!
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george moromisato
- Developer
- Posts: 2998
- Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 9:53 pm
- Contact:
Neat idea. One way to do that is to have the weapon consume "charges" (like the QAC). To recharge the weapon, you "Use" it and it trades credits for charges.Betelgeuse wrote:hmm just had an idea make a mod that has a launcher that every time it fires it drains your credits. It would be just like if ammo was plentiful.
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Salvagebot 1.0
- Commonwealth Pilot
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:43 am
- Location: Tinker Sanford
I think if you made the Teraton fabs eat up fewer keystrokes it would solve a lot of ammo problems. (More Teraton bases should have fabs in them, too.)
Straightaway we need to be able to drop resources in quantity. Dropping one fuel rod at a time is pointlessly tedious.
That's pretty obvious, but I have a cool idea that's not so obvious: make the default quantity always balance ore or power if it can. If I have more ore than energy loaded up and I select fuel rods, the default quantity automatically comes up as however many rods will balance out power (always rounded up).
If I select a surplus or balanced resource to drop in the default comes up "0" -- the computer can't assume it knows what the player wants in that case.
The computer should automatically calculate the energy required to grind up armor plates when dropping in armor in an ore-deficit situation and set the balancing amount accordingly.
Non-resource item inputs would still work like they do now, and that means no "quantity" dialog. I don't want to type quantities when the only applicable quantity is "1" any more than I want to throw stuff in 1 at a time when I shouldn't have to.
Ammo should run for however many cycles are possible given resources and cargo space. Players will quickly adapt to this behavior.
That's a lot of verbiage, let's see the system in action!
I have 18 sheets of level 6 armor, 100 H3 assemblies, and a kitten pod.
First I select the fuel and "Drop".
A quantity dialog appears with default "0". I select 10 and drop.
Next I drop in the armor. The default comes up "3", but I change it to "18" and drop.
Now I drop fuel again. The default comes up "22". I want to balance now, so I just hit "Drop" and trust "22" to be the right number.
Now for the payday! I throw in a kitten pod (level 12?) the machine runs 9 cycles (108 / 12), and I get back ~90 kitten pods.
The only math I had to do was in the beginning, when I threw in enough fuel to chop up the armor. If I just chucked in all my fuel at the beginning I wouldn't even have to make that effort.
Just by making the default amounts intelligent you can make minimal changes to the UI for a maximal reduction of player tedium.
If you were in the mood to add UI enhancements, you could throw in a little gauge with a needle that stays in the middle if you're balanced but swings to one side or the other to indicate an imbalance. A 0 of either resource makes the gauge dim out.
You don't really need anything like that at all if the default resource drop quantities always attempt to balance, but if you were in the mood you could add some "Forbidden Planet"-style atmosphere by showing a gauge.
Incidentally, one interesting side-effect of batch processing ammo is increased efficiency over one-offs: if I get 3 cycles from 1 drop I save 2 units of ammo which I would've otherwise had to drop for separate runs.
Straightaway we need to be able to drop resources in quantity. Dropping one fuel rod at a time is pointlessly tedious.
That's pretty obvious, but I have a cool idea that's not so obvious: make the default quantity always balance ore or power if it can. If I have more ore than energy loaded up and I select fuel rods, the default quantity automatically comes up as however many rods will balance out power (always rounded up).
If I select a surplus or balanced resource to drop in the default comes up "0" -- the computer can't assume it knows what the player wants in that case.
The computer should automatically calculate the energy required to grind up armor plates when dropping in armor in an ore-deficit situation and set the balancing amount accordingly.
Non-resource item inputs would still work like they do now, and that means no "quantity" dialog. I don't want to type quantities when the only applicable quantity is "1" any more than I want to throw stuff in 1 at a time when I shouldn't have to.
Ammo should run for however many cycles are possible given resources and cargo space. Players will quickly adapt to this behavior.
That's a lot of verbiage, let's see the system in action!
I have 18 sheets of level 6 armor, 100 H3 assemblies, and a kitten pod.
First I select the fuel and "Drop".
A quantity dialog appears with default "0". I select 10 and drop.
Next I drop in the armor. The default comes up "3", but I change it to "18" and drop.
Now I drop fuel again. The default comes up "22". I want to balance now, so I just hit "Drop" and trust "22" to be the right number.
Now for the payday! I throw in a kitten pod (level 12?) the machine runs 9 cycles (108 / 12), and I get back ~90 kitten pods.
The only math I had to do was in the beginning, when I threw in enough fuel to chop up the armor. If I just chucked in all my fuel at the beginning I wouldn't even have to make that effort.
Just by making the default amounts intelligent you can make minimal changes to the UI for a maximal reduction of player tedium.
If you were in the mood to add UI enhancements, you could throw in a little gauge with a needle that stays in the middle if you're balanced but swings to one side or the other to indicate an imbalance. A 0 of either resource makes the gauge dim out.
You don't really need anything like that at all if the default resource drop quantities always attempt to balance, but if you were in the mood you could add some "Forbidden Planet"-style atmosphere by showing a gauge.
Incidentally, one interesting side-effect of batch processing ammo is increased efficiency over one-offs: if I get 3 cycles from 1 drop I save 2 units of ammo which I would've otherwise had to drop for separate runs.