In ver0.98c, I noticed the number for 'maneuver' for each player ship is now 2/3 of before, and any number less than 2 doesn't seem to work.
So the ship with faster rotation is heavily slowed down when you bother to make all 40 facings, and slower ship are now (slightly) harder to maintain balance with the rotating speed.
Now I call this a severe problem (for very fast mod ships at least).
Yep, I think less number of facings can probably make the ship faster but it sort of uncool, I'd say.
Could you do something on this, George?
Max rotating speed of a ship with 40 facings?
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george moromisato
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The fundamental limit is the frame-rate, which is currently at 30 frames per second (and is actually pretty hard to change).
I believe that the Sapphire and the Wolfen are already turning at the fastest possible rate (one facing per frame).
Even if this were "fixed" by increasing the frame-rate of the game, it would then make the ship harder to aim (the player would have trouble turning by a single facing).
What I would consider (though probably post-1.0) is a modifier key that adjusts the turn rate (i.e., maybe hitting Alt+arrow turns the ship faster [by multiple facings per frame]).
Another possibility is to accelerate the turning when you hold down the key--that is, adding rotational momentum (this might make more sense for the freighter).
I believe that the Sapphire and the Wolfen are already turning at the fastest possible rate (one facing per frame).
Even if this were "fixed" by increasing the frame-rate of the game, it would then make the ship harder to aim (the player would have trouble turning by a single facing).
What I would consider (though probably post-1.0) is a modifier key that adjusts the turn rate (i.e., maybe hitting Alt+arrow turns the ship faster [by multiple facings per frame]).
Another possibility is to accelerate the turning when you hold down the key--that is, adding rotational momentum (this might make more sense for the freighter).
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Betelgeuse
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rotational momentum does sound like a cool idea plus it is realistic. It allows for fine tuning (the Wolfen is hard to fine tune) while keeping the time to do a revolution low.
Three ways of doing it that I see
accelerate when button held down and instant stop when you let go
accelerate when button held down and when you let go it slows down the rotation to zero
accelerate when button held down and momentum is kept when button is let go (more realistic but might be harder to control)
Three ways of doing it that I see
accelerate when button held down and instant stop when you let go
accelerate when button held down and when you let go it slows down the rotation to zero
accelerate when button held down and momentum is kept when button is let go (more realistic but might be harder to control)
Crying is not a proper retort!
Well, rathe off-topic but I don't think this is a problem, since I am familiar with so-called fighting games and have seen too many seasoned players who can perform very complicated commands without missing 1/60 second timings.george moromisato wrote: Even if this were "fixed" by increasing the frame-rate of the game, it would then make the ship harder to aim (the player would have trouble turning by a single facing).
After all, 1/60 second I think is longer than you might expect.
And, you mean turning fully rond requires 40/30 sec? I'd say that's too slow!
But anyway I understand increasing the frame-rate is utterly impractical and we have to think of other alternative ideas at the moment. Thank you very much for your considerate answer!
No- the frame rate is (at peak performance) 30 frames per second, and the Wolfen/Sapphire turn at 1 facing per frame. Basically, it'll take just over a second to fully turn.darksider wrote: And, you mean turning fully rond requires 40/30 sec? I'd say that's too slow!
I'm not sure what the issue is here. Turning is really smooth, and I'm not having any problems with the new facings.
Last edited by Sponge on Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Fossaman
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I've had a little bit of trouble with the wolfen and sapphire with turning just a little too far, and missing because I'm one facing off, but other than that (which is really more me than the game) I have no beefs with the new system. It looks gorgeous, and it feels more natural.
For fast ships? Reduce the number of facings. If I'm not mistaken, there would have been a cap at .66 in the maneuver slot anyway.
For fast ships? Reduce the number of facings. If I'm not mistaken, there would have been a cap at .66 in the maneuver slot anyway.
X-ray laser! Pew, pew pew!
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Betelgeuse
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Reduce the number of facings would make them worse combat ships than the slower ships and that just seems backward. I agree with that the current system is fine I was just thinking about the future.
The more things we can make different in different ships the more variety the game will have. Thats why I like the rotational momentum more than the current system or the "alt" arrow to turn faster. A fighter that you can turn on a dime (maybe even spray your weapon all around) and still attack anything it sees.
It is very hard to make a ship unlike all the other ships. Maxarmor doesn't really effect gameplay and maxreactor can't be used due to it doesn't make a fun late game. Cargo isn't important anymore with the equipped devices not taking space anymore.
The only things that effect a ship are its profile (what can be hit on it sadly with official player ships you can't get interesting), its maneuverability, and its device slots.
I would love to have things that expanded on these three things such as
profile
The more things we can make different in different ships the more variety the game will have. Thats why I like the rotational momentum more than the current system or the "alt" arrow to turn faster. A fighter that you can turn on a dime (maybe even spray your weapon all around) and still attack anything it sees.
It is very hard to make a ship unlike all the other ships. Maxarmor doesn't really effect gameplay and maxreactor can't be used due to it doesn't make a fun late game. Cargo isn't important anymore with the equipped devices not taking space anymore.
The only things that effect a ship are its profile (what can be hit on it sadly with official player ships you can't get interesting), its maneuverability, and its device slots.
I would love to have things that expanded on these three things such as
profile
- % chance to miss parts of the ship
- parts of the ship that correspond to certain systems ie hit this spot to do double damage to shields or to slow down the weapon
- devices that change the profile of the ship
- ramming ships ie ships that are solid to other ships you don't even have to damage
- accelerating turning
- slots for certain types of equipment such as alien
- penalty slots ie you can equip something here but it takes double the power or is damaged after awhile
Crying is not a proper retort!
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Salvagebot 1.0
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Do you have to be so aggressive with the turning performance degradation at higher cargo loads?
I suppose Salvagebots must always choose turreted weapons on the assumption they are 99% likely to enter combat loaded down with salvage, but it would be cool if those engine upgrades mitigated the turning penalty somewhat.
I suppose Salvagebots must always choose turreted weapons on the assumption they are 99% likely to enter combat loaded down with salvage, but it would be cool if those engine upgrades mitigated the turning penalty somewhat.
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Kamikaze
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Well, a ship with a high mass will be affected less. So, 30 tons of cargo in the Freighter makes less difference than 30 tons in the Sapphire/Wolfer.
Modding will answer it.
Modding will answer it.
I never said I was sane.
I said I was perfectly insane.
I said I was perfectly insane.
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Salvagebot 1.0
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I'm doing a run-through with the Freighter and you're right.
I suppose the price you pay for the Wolfen's massive weight of fire is the need to travel light.
The Wolfen really does kick a**. All those guns ... all those damage types ... all those boosters you can use ... what a terrific spray of firepower! In a Wolfen every particle booster, hexagene booster, ion booster, and tritium booster you find goes to work for you. All those slow-firing turrets turn into a rapid-fire Gatling blaze of omni-everything.
The freighter is a whole different experience. I spent all I had to get the best 2 weapons I could afford, dual AK turrets.
In the Wolfie 2 AK's would mean a ridiculous waste of time, as you'd constantly be rearming from your stash, but in the freighter I'm packing 2000 rounds of AK and still have >100 cargo space. I can clean several systems and keep plowing forward, and thusfar I haven't felt any need to keep a "stash" -- the freighter can carry my entire ammo stockpile plus all the junk I'm saving for later with plenty of room to spare for loot.
In my run-through with the Sapphire I spent most of my time fabricating thermo. If thermo ammo is scarce in my freighter game at least I'll be able to carry a lot more scrap to the fabricator.
I suppose the price you pay for the Wolfen's massive weight of fire is the need to travel light.
The Wolfen really does kick a**. All those guns ... all those damage types ... all those boosters you can use ... what a terrific spray of firepower! In a Wolfen every particle booster, hexagene booster, ion booster, and tritium booster you find goes to work for you. All those slow-firing turrets turn into a rapid-fire Gatling blaze of omni-everything.
The freighter is a whole different experience. I spent all I had to get the best 2 weapons I could afford, dual AK turrets.
In the Wolfie 2 AK's would mean a ridiculous waste of time, as you'd constantly be rearming from your stash, but in the freighter I'm packing 2000 rounds of AK and still have >100 cargo space. I can clean several systems and keep plowing forward, and thusfar I haven't felt any need to keep a "stash" -- the freighter can carry my entire ammo stockpile plus all the junk I'm saving for later with plenty of room to spare for loot.
In my run-through with the Sapphire I spent most of my time fabricating thermo. If thermo ammo is scarce in my freighter game at least I'll be able to carry a lot more scrap to the fabricator.