SS Topology Version 4

Freeform discussion about anything related to modding Transcendence.
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Periculi
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Here is a version 0.4 Stone Soup topology.

Version 4 with many new features!

Random branching sets added for random stubs for entire system from Eridani to Dantalion for 3rd and 4th gate links. These will now produce dead end branches from the main trunk of varying structure. The random branches use the Frontier and Hostile system versions.

Unique systems expanded for more gates, now up to 5 in a system.

Many new segments added to round out the basic structures up to Dantalion, such as loops and simple double loops.

A great deal of playtesting and quality control has gone into this version, several bugs and broken links have been found and fixed.

Why is it 0.4 instead of 4? I will be switching to version 1 as a mod for 0.99 once it is released.

Topology Snippets- the entire topology has been broken down into text files piece by piece so you can see how everything is put together, or construct your own topo systems from the prebuilt chunks! yay!

Version 3- This version employs new system definitions for the random branch stubs. The two new types of systems are Hostile and Frontier. Hostile systems replace the usual spread of Friendly to Enemy stations with all enemy stations, using the random system filtering in place. Frontier systems strongly reduce the number of stations in the system to simulate the undeveloped nature of the edge of empire.

Main trunk linear systems now access random branch stubs all the way through to Dantalion.

You all remember the story of how to make stone soup, yes?

I designed this topology to allow expansion in segments, as well as to provide other means of adding in sections.

This mod replaces the Transcendence.xml of the main file set, as with most of my mods.

Essentially this is a version of many topologies combined and worked out to break along certain segments- like SK, a natural spot to make a breaking point in. By dividing the topology into sections, I was able to make various paths to travel the map possible and have them randomly chose the links.

SE => C1 -> CP => SK => C5 -> C8 => C9 => A1 -> A3B => PJ => A5 -> A6 => A7 => G1 -> G2
is a sort of map of the segments, but not strictly. => indicates a major break- where many segments meet and link.

Any node on the linear portion is suitable to merge a network segment back into. A SE to EC network uses a table entry from SE to a NetC1 which eventually dumps you back into the linear segment at node EC, rather than at a major break point such as Jiang's (C9). Why? I wanted it that way. And to test linking back into the linear path from a big network, of course.

You won't know in game what type of segment you are on, or where the branches might lead from game to game- Eridani selects one of seven possible C1 systems that each have a unique set of paths. Expanding this could create dozens of possible paths to start the game, offering a huge variety of maps from game to game.

The smaller divisions can be expanded on without limits, and can be ignored to add in larger networks. By following the guidelines of the design, any number of varying topology mods can be woven into what is possible, like the ingredients of a lovely stone soup: a little from each of us added into the mix.

The prototype file set includes the systems and the extra bits needed to make a more complex topology, and various examples of what can be arranged.

There are linear and looping paths, and the linear path nodes are set up to have more than 2 gates- each step along the path can have 2 to 5 gates- the extra gates lead to dead ends for the time being- they can be expanded into random branches or even given special systems for adventures- it is very easy to tie into any segment of the linear path with additional systems or diversions.

The random 'stubs' that are usually dead ends haven't been given names yet- they are called 'R3, R4, R5' depending on what gate they are using. Being as this is a prototype I have left them nameless in order to easily be able to identify the branch stub. Each node of the linear path has 3 nodes that are identified in this manner at the end of the topology tag. These nodes are going to be shared by the various main path nodes of the topology, so they will be treated as their own set- the random path set. Expanding each of these nodes into a set of random branch structures is one of goals for this topology mod in the near future.

You can add segments of random structures easily following the guidelines I have set up in the topology section of the xml.

Most of the rules I used are embedded as comments there, the main map divisions are well marked out too. You can study the node structure and tables of links to divine the rest. If you are adding to the topology, we can simply pass around the node code and update the main version once in a while- if the system is standardized, adding new nodes should be fairly simple and won't require the entire mod for every little addition of node structures.

Future versions will include larger networks- entire node structures that redefine sections from Eridani all the way to Dantalion- spider webbed structures and massive networks are all possible- so the selection of what is possible from Eridani can become huge!

If you already have some topology maps made and want to add them in but don't feel like doing the work, send them my way and I'll graft them in somehow. :) The more the merrier!

Adding Segments to the Topology:

It is best to look into the topology a little before attempting to create an intricate network. What I generally do before coding is make some plans and draw some little maps of how the links are going to be. Bubbles around node names (SE, C1, C3) and lines to indicate the gate paths works just fine for this- and I leave room to denote the gate being used on each side to help plan out more complex maps. Some time spent planning out the topology saves headaches when it's time to arrange all the gates to point ot the right nodes.

As far as naming nodes goes, I used the same node names (SE, C1, C3...) as existed and added bits to the front and back to place them in their segments: All the Main path nodes carry the original node name within them.

First the linear path got 'line' added to its node name- lineC1, then when I randomized the gates for the nodes in the linear system I added "A" through "D" to indicate the number of gates- AlineC1 has 2 gates as per the normal game- BlineC1 is the same system with 3 gates, ClineC1 is the same system with four gates, DlineC1 is the same system with 5 gates- the two linear and additional gates to random nodes (indicated by an R as in RC1A1- the node that the third gate of BlineC1 points to.)

Basically: [A-D]+[type of path]+[node name]

Other names for main path nodes would be 'loop' for a simple loop- as in loopC1, '1Dloop' for a double loop, 2Dloop, and so on.

There are a few critical things to remember about naming nodes- you want them to be original and they should be similar for a segment- if we keep the names of the nodes to those guidelines, then anything works. You could have glueC1, you could have D9xpC1aaa9 or anything. I used simple names like 'line' and 'loop' to help me know what form the node structure was taking.

The original node name hierarchy provides a way to obscure the map- you won't know which 'Groombridge' you are actually in- so any C1 level node can make use of the name set for that node. I have added around 150 more star names to the mix in nodes that expanded a segment past the original number of nodes, so their are lots more node names to work with- look into the larger 2Dloop segments for extended names to use, for instance.

It's a good trick to keep the star names between related segments or nodes, keeps the confusion level without making the game a total maze to navigate.

The Sections:

SE = Starton Eridani, this is a crucial node to be aware of and to tap into to alter the topology for the early game- or to add massive networks. From SE a decision can be made to choose any of the major types of topo segments:

SE linear to SK - a basic line, but with many chances to have random dead end branches attached.
SE looping to SK - a static looping type main structure with optional random branch nodes
SE networks - Various networks to other levels of the topology.

SK = Saint Katherine's, this is a major node in the game, and it has many variants- any linear or looping path from SE can end up at one of the 6 current SK network variations, and this number will be growing with some larger branching networks.

SK also plays a major role in other networks where it has a static position in a more spider webbed network. (currently there is one network from SE to EC that does this)

The main divisions for the line and loop type paths is:
[SE to CP/SK entry node] - [SK networks] - [C5 to C9 entry] - [Jiang's Networks] - [A1 to PJ entry] - [PJ networks] - [PJ to Dantalion/Heretic]

Outside of the main sections are stand alone networks- these can involve any number of nodes, and can return to the path (usually to the linear path as it is easiest to intersect from the exit of a network)
Last edited by Periculi on Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:30 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Betelgeuse
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will it be flexible enough to handle some of my topologies? Some systems have 4 gates all active. That would mean that you would need to make new systems for one gate two gate three gate and four gate random systems.
The good news is that it is a static gate system (no random gates) the bad news is that you will need to make tons of new systems. I can even think of ways of using six gate systems (cube topologies ftw)
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Periculi
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I have 1 gate through 5 gate standard versions of all the systems.

Oh, and I was planning to expand that to 8 gate versions, with alternate Hostile and Frontier system types- I also have done versions for the unique systems such as SK, and have more planned.

If you want something added to the base file set, we can add it. My goal is a sort of community expansion set- something we can share around and add to over time that works well.

You can call the gates easily- it's the number at the end of the system: EarthSpaceStandard1 = dead end one gate (or one way random, or whatever) EarthSpaceStandard5 = 5 gates - Inbound, Outbound, Third, Fourth, Fifth
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name of node: what nodes it is connected too

A simple spider web system. No randomness and nothing to indicate what is incoming and outgoing (I don't like incoming and outgoing as that implies linear).

MD: IR0, IR2, IR4, IR6

IR0: MD, IR1, IR7
IR2: MD, IR1, IR3
IR4: MD, IR3, IR5
IR6: MD, IR5, IR7

IR1: OR0, IR0, IR2
IR3: OR2, IR2, IR4
IR5: OR4, IR6, IR4
IR7: OR6, IR0, IR6

OR0: IR1, OR7, OR1
OR2: IR3, OR3, OR1
OR4: IR5, OR5, OR3
OR6: IR7, OR7, OR5

OR1: DE0, OR0, OR2
OR3: DE1, OR4, OR2
OR5: DE2, OR4, OR6
OR7: DE3, OR0, OR6

DE0: OR1
DE1: OR3
DE2: OR5
DE3: OR7

Make one of the dead end systems a two way to get into the web. How you decorate they web is up to you too. :D The original had MD be St. K to be really the middle of the game :D
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Periculi
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(I don't like incoming and outgoing as that implies linear).
I just left the existing names. They are just names, so it didn't matter to me- the name doesn't appear in the game. I used them to keep the path to the core on- making it Inbound to the core and Outbound from the core in a sense- which is linear, but only along one axis which I think is working fine.

My intent here is to deal in <Node> structures. Finishing my own plans for the basics is filling my plate, so any maps offered here will be added to the end of /me's to-do list.

Do you have any topologies ready to go? Converting something you made to use the systems and gates would be easy enough for a start. :)
The original had MD be St. K to be really the middle of the game
I have it set up to choose SK independently- I intended to create some SK networks and clusters that might even offer special side missions or larger segments to explore- from what I can tell your map would fit nicely in that category- in which case it could have a chance of appearing in a larger set of random builds- such as: any SE to SK segment + a SK network such as yours + any continuing set of nodes.

So your map with MD being SK could be placed in a pool of SKs that linked up with the pools of prior and continuing segments of topology.
Last edited by Periculi on Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Betelgeuse
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I got rid of them long ago. (you have to realize I made these things years ago)

but making a shorthand for the boards would be a good idea. What do you think would make a good way of putting the nodes and links on the board easily?
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Periculi
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whoops, editing while you posted.

hmm.. as links to text files containing the node tags?
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Betelgeuse
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ok let me put this simply shorthand is not code.
If you want some creative topologies you have to allow people who don't mod those things to do it. The amount of modders that can mod the topology is very few and most of those will not be interested in this project if they have to code (myself I am busy with the documentation, people please read through and comment even if to say good work or you have no idea to my questions.)
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Periculi
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Well, I suppose I could take on more over time. The way you posted it is fine, for me. Maybe some comments or naming style to help define the map better could be created.

I was hoping you of all people would have big chunks sitting around ready to go. Pity you didn't save yours from long ago, some antique topos would've been grand.

Before you crazy mapping, perhaps I should explain the way that the topo can be intersected to help you design. Which would take a bit of time to prepare, however.
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In my opinion you should really post some "rules", naming conventions and general guidelines for modders in order to expand your revolutionary topology mod.

BTW I'm willing to learn how to mod topos.
:)
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Periculi wrote:Well, I suppose I could take on more over time. The way you posted it is fine, for me. Maybe some comments or naming style to help define the map better could be created.

I was hoping you of all people would have big chunks sitting around ready to go. Pity you didn't save yours from long ago, some antique topos would've been grand.

Before you crazy mapping, perhaps I should explain the way that the topo can be intersected to help you design. Which would take a bit of time to prepare, however.

/??
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Periculi
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Ok, well- I found a few errors in a section I had shut down the chances to get- I balanced the chances for the segments better, and I added an entire network from Eridani to Eta Ceti that incorporates several back routes around St. Katherines.

Here is the fixed version- Stone Soup Topology version .2

Perhaps if you specify a question it would help me answer you Ttech.
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Periculi
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BTW I'm willing to learn how to mod topos.
You can probably get a good start looking at the Node structure in the <StarSystemTopology> tag.

One easy thing to add to the topology that would make for a good mod is more little branching SK networks- the 'entry' and 'exit' nodes could remain in line with the current segments but you could create more systems interlinked around SK and tied into additional gates there for practice.
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now that I look at the idea more I am not sure I like it. If I understand correctly it will just add more systems without changing the shortest path.
This will create tons of balance problems and makes getting what you want all but certain.
Adding set systems isn't a problem and making non linear networks isn't even the problem it is adding more systems makes getting anything you want easier and easier.
What is fun (at least for me) of non linear networks is that they often have shorter shortest path if you get lucky this makes for a very hectic game where you rarely have enough money to do anything (but still want to stay there do to that is where the good stuff is) while if you get unlucky and get lost you get the time to build up making two very different types of games in the same game. The current game assumes you are going in linear order so every extra random system adds nothing to the difficulty while taking away from the randomness in each game.
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Periculi
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You are a tough crowd.

No, your wrong about how it works.

The balance issue is already there.

It doesn't just add systems, it breaks the topo down into chunks and chooses from a set of chunks what to put in a given spot.

The linear path does add nodes, but it is in the hopes that some mods will be coming along to reduce equipment and treasure and make those extra systems desired and helpful.

I am also already devising some shorter path networks that can dump you into nastier frontier or hostile systems.

I would recommend taking this as a part of a game expansion, rather than the entire thing. Of course a larger and more detailed topology gives you more than you need when the game already gives you more than you need as it stands.
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