SS Topology Version 4

[Betelgeuse]

then you would need to give a chunk and describe it and give some restraints.

Couple things I would ask.

Allow for no backing out of a chunk. (not all chucks will do this but some will)
Allow for a chunk to have multiple entry points. (like a table with a chance for each entry)

a cool idea for a system I just thought up is one with tons of stargates but only one is real. There would be tons of enemies but no reinforcements or random gate ins (so you can't tell that way).

[Periculi]

Allow for no backing out of a chunk. (not all chucks will do this but some will)
Allow for a chunk to have multiple entry points. (like a table with a chance for each entry)

Segments are chosen as the topo gets built- so each game you only get ONE SE to SK path, right- but it might be a line, it might have a loop, it might actually be part of a larger network with routes around SK to Jiang's or beyond.

That's for the Main path- to make each game more random. Additional Random paths- which are generally dead ends- can be added. In this version only the linear path gets the extra gates to the random dead end stubs- these are the extra systems you have mentioned would be a problem.

Making a one way path is possible, but I built a system here that makes a topology that is passable in either direction for every gate- no one ways.


I like the system idea, and it's very easy. Some other systems like that or nastier even could be thrown in as random links.

I agree that the chunks should be given some restraints for the main path assemblers- perhaps a limit to the amount of nodes in the shortest path, or other factors for balance.

But for balance, I want to address the issue of Loot through dockscreen filters and perhaps make some of the more popular equipment combos more rare.

edit- Now that I thought about it some more, using some areas, segments, chunks or networks as Betelgeuse proposed might work well- perhaps a form of surprise advancement - one branch of a network travels though ~5 systems and raises level slowly and allows you to adjust- it's path is 'stable' meaning you can go forwards and back freely-
Then the other branches of the same network might take you into a one way type of arrangement- no going back once you have jumped in (unless you have a beacon jump drive, hehehee) - this branch then dumps you into a swiftly advancing level progression (perhaps in systems with less percentage of friendly stations as well) and you end up facing a greater challenge.

We could call these topology 'switches' perhaps- make them in various forms- even all 1 way, but eventually reach a system that linked all the way back to the prior origin- I believe in having the topology be freely traveled, and keeping the ability to back track as needed ( at least eventually )

addit- Perhaps we could do some sets that offered a steeper level progression, and we could adjust the chances to get these for players who wanted a stiffer game. The linear model could be set up to skip some nodes- it's using the Prev id to build the line still, so it's flexible enough to make it even shorter and harder (forcing you into the lateral arms to find more loot at your current level). Loops and such forms could be created to jump to higher level systems faster as well- so you would almost be forced into back tracking to the 'other' arms that were similar level systems.

[Periculi]

This might be a very simple way to adjust treasure:

Find dsLoot in Transcendence.xml:

Code: Select all

<DockScreen UNID="&dsLoot;"
		name=				"=(objGetName gSource)"
		type=				"itemPicker"
		backgroundID=		"&rsItemListScreen;"
		>

	<ListOptions
		dataFrom=	"station"
		list=		"dfmtuvU; -MinorItem; -MajorItem;"
		/>

See where it says list options, you can filter out most ship equipment by changing it from "*U" to something like I have above: list= "dfmtuvU; -MinorItem; -MajorItem;"

This effectively takes out all the weapons, armor, and shields from loot in one fell swoop. of code.

I did that then blew up Eridani- the difference was major.

You could set it at just list= "tU" and cripple the loot to only giving you misc items (and, I think, installed devices mostly as damaged)

Edit- actually, after playing a little I was broke. A few times. So I made a dsShipLoot to work like the old version with a "*U" list filter, and set the dsAbandonedShip to use the new dsShipLoot for ships- this gives me the ship equipment but not the stations. Blowing up friendly stations will still net you some good amounts of devices, fuel, misc, and ammo but no major equipment.

[OddBob]

I think taking out equipment from the game like that is very clever- I think it will help a lot - however you have to add back in at least partially equivalent misc goods (or as you said, you will be broke) - Can that be accomplished with a minimum of editing by changing the item tables that you loot from. Just add a few more random items in every one (right now most of the have only one random item)?

Also, will that dsLoot affect cargo crates/mules as well?

[Ttech]

I think taking out equipment from the game like that is very clever- I think it will help a lot - however you have to add back in at least partially equivalent misc goods (or as you said, you will be broke) - Can that be accomplished with a minimum of editing by changing the item tables that you loot from. Just add a few more random items in every one (right now most of the have only one random item)?

Also, will that dsLoot affect cargo crates/mules as well?

And I'm adding things .

[Periculi]

I think taking out equipment from the game like that is very clever- I think it will help a lot - however you have to add back in at least partially equivalent misc goods (or as you said, you will be broke) - Can that be accomplished with a minimum of editing by changing the item tables that you loot from. Just add a few more random items in every one (right now most of the have only one random item)?

Also, will that dsLoot affect cargo crates/mules as well?

Yes, but nothing is stopping the use of multiple dsLoot type screens- like I mentioned about putting the dsShipLoot to give me the full ship items.

[Ttech]

I think taking out equipment from the game like that is very clever- I think it will help a lot - however you have to add back in at least partially equivalent misc goods (or as you said, you will be broke) - Can that be accomplished with a minimum of editing by changing the item tables that you loot from. Just add a few more random items in every one (right now most of the have only one random item)?

Also, will that dsLoot affect cargo crates/mules as well?

Yes, but nothing is stopping the use of multiple dsLoot type screens- like I mentioned about putting the dsShipLoot to give me the full ship items.

???

[Periculi]

*sigh*

???

Yes, Ttech, the Loot screens can be adjusted. This adjustment can make the game more difficult in order to balance the extra systems that a larger topology offers to prevent you and the rest of us from becoming rich and powerful too easily.

[digdug]

what about adding more closed stargates at the end of each deadend topo branch ?
this will increase the roleplaying a lot in my opinion. You have to find the guarded deadend and steal the rod in order to exit from the quarantined human zone. All others deadends are useless only because there are no Iocrym ships.
Our hero is trying to escape the quarantined zone and reach the center, after seeing Periculi's topology mod in action , a straight line of systems seems really too simplistic to me.

[EDIT] I know, I know, a straight line of levels is pure nethack style. and George's original idea was a space nethack game. But other similar games like Starsonata or Flatspace2 have nonlinear topology systems.

[Periculi]

Nethack is a wonderful game, and for it's genre and design a linear path is lovely.

Transcendence could surpass nethack in so many ways, and one way is to provide a huge and variant topology.

I will have an update for this mod shortly, btw, and I think I will put together a topology design tutorial to add to the mix of tutorials going up lately.

I have some ideas about making level 10 systems more difficult and more of a challenge to get through to Heretic- right now there isn't much 10th level action. It would certainly be easy to make the Heretic gate locked or hidden in some form.

Making lower lever branches exit Earth Space isn't a great idea- you wouldn't want to stumble into an Iocrym confrontation with a kinetic cannon and a class 2 shield.

Some new systems are in the works that will be filler for the ends of branches off the main path- more hostiles, frontier style systems, debris fields from ancient battles, or similar type of systems will be found in the branching segments.

[Ttech]

Nethack is a wonderful game, and for it's genre and design a linear path is lovely.

Transcendence could surpass nethack in so many ways, and one way is to provide a huge and variant topology.

I will have an update for this mod shortly, btw, and I think I will put together a topology design tutorial to add to the mix of tutorials going up lately.

I have some ideas about making level 10 systems more difficult and more of a challenge to get through to Heretic- right now there isn't much 10th level action. It would certainly be easy to make the Heretic gate locked or hidden in some form.

Making lower lever branches exit Earth Space isn't a great idea- you wouldn't want to stumble into an Iocrym confrontation with a kinetic cannon and a class 2 shield.

Some new systems are in the works that will be filler for the ends of branches off the main path- more hostiles, frontier style systems, debris fields from ancient battles, or similar type of systems will be found in the branching segments.

I have quite a few bugs LEt me test the next verion.
Can we have SOL in there?

[Periculi]

Can we have SOL in there?

Did you finish making a Sol system? I can put a node in for it, if I had the system.

I have quite a few bugs

Bug collecting must be a lot of fun.

[Ttech]

Can we have SOL in there?

Did you finish making a Sol system? I can put a node in for it, if I had the system

No, I was waiting for some images. I'm no grapics designer. LOL

Bug collecting must be a lot of fun.

Bug colllecting? Its the first think you learn when you do programing. I've spent hours trying to fix a bug and it turns out just to be something like forgetting FALSE or soemthing liek that. OR my favorite Forgeting ; at the end of each line.

[Periculi]

well, try to let me know the gate you tried or the system you had a crash in from this mod if you find a bug. I already found and removed a few- maybe you can find more.

[Betelgeuse]

hey I found two false in the xml files (I didn't expect to find any)
NoPM="false"